GDT: Week 13 - Hamilton at Edmonton

[cmbuk]

Speaking of 3DownNation: https://3downnation.com/2021/11/02/c...Yfuzpk4lYWnjOI

Nah.. place him in sask, montreal , heck even bc and watch his numbers…

Walker isn’t the only casualty in this season… he’s just the latest..

[Mudnyereye]

Nah.. place him in sask, montreal , heck even bc and watch his numbers…

Walker isn’t the only casualty in this season… he’s just the latest..

I imagine it's challenging to keep up your A-game when you are seen as moderate to deep threat but the ball is rarely thrown 5 yards past the LOS.

[Hugoagogo]

I imagine it's challenging to keep up your A-game when you are seen as moderate to deep threat but the ball is rarely thrown 5 yards past the LOS.

Ottawa won the Grey Cup with the same OC in his first year as coordinator. So is it the burden of added HC responsibilities for Elizondo that is causing the misfire on offense? Has his offense changed? Is the line forcing changes to the plays that are being called?
At some point the players also need to take some responsibility for their lack of performance. Walker has dropped far more than he usually does. You can't be one of the highest paid receivers in the league, pout like he has been, and continue to drop passes.

[56Parkies]

Ottawa won the Grey Cup with the same OC in his first year as coordinator. So is it the burden of added HC responsibilities for Elizondo that is causing the misfire on offense? Has his offense changed? Is the line forcing changes to the plays that are being called?
At some point the players also need to take some responsibility for their lack of performance. Walker has dropped far more than he usually does. You can't be one of the highest paid receivers in the league, pout like he has been, and continue to drop passes.

Walker has been targeted 75 times so far this year, and caught 40 - just over 50%.

Compare to Ellingson, who has caught 47 of his 69 targets for 68%, or Bryan Burnham with 54/72 for 75%, or Kenny Lawler with 50/74 (68%), etc. You can see that the big guns out there are making their plays, and Walker has not been.

[Sectionq]

There was a rumor that 3DownNation did on their Insider Talk article a few weeks ago that said Brock is pretty much lazy when it comes to recruiting. Doesn't like to do it and doesn't do much of it.

I could believe he's lazy. Look at his free agents signings since he got here? Mostly existing vets, known names. I like Walker so when Brock signed him, I was OK with it but he's a known guy. You go back to the 2015 team that won the cup. Yes there were some proven vets but if you look at the roster, there also lots of unknown, new guys to the CFL who made huge impacts. Kendal Lawrence was with the Ticats in 2014, barely played, Hervey brought him in, in 2015 and he was a very good player for the Esks. Brock went out his first year and traded for CJ Gable. Gable had been in the league for years, put up good numbers for the Ticats and they decided he was expendable because they had a guy that was better and probably cheaper. Where are Brock's Derel Walkers or McCoil's, Lacy's or Grymes. Willie Jefferson, maybe the most dominate defensive player in the league was brought in by Hervey and was very good for the Esks. All those guys came from the US, never played in the CFL, were probably dirt cheap and turned into stars.

If you look at the Elks secondary as an example that has played for most of the year. Mincy, Washington, Hoover, Grymes, Rose. All those guys, except for Hoover were found by someone else, learned the CFL on another team and are now here. Even Hoover was a Hervey draft pick. I could be wrong but I don't remember too many championship teams that were built on nothing but vet free agents. In a cap league like the CFL, you have to go out and find all these American players who are unknown, who play for cheap but turn into stars. I haven't seen that since Brock took over but Brock sure gets a ton of press about his "free agent day" when he goes big game hunting every year.

[56Parkies]

I could believe he's lazy. Look at his free agents signings since he got here? Mostly existing vets, known names. I like Walker so when Brock signed him, I was OK with it but he's a known guy. You go back to the 2015 team that won the cup. Yes there were some proven vets but if you look at the roster, there also lots of unknown, new guys to the CFL who made huge impacts. Kendal Lawrence was with the Ticats in 2014, barely played, Hervey brought him in, in 2015 and he was a very good player for the Esks. Brock went out his first year and traded for CJ Gable. Gable had been in the league for years, put up good numbers for the Ticats and they decided he was expendable because they had a guy that was better and probably cheaper. Where are Brock's Derel Walkers or McCoil's, Lacy's or Grymes. Willie Jefferson, maybe the most dominate defensive player in the league was brought in by Hervey and was very good for the Esks. All those guys came from the US, never played in the CFL, were probably dirt cheap and turned into stars.

If you look at the Elks secondary as an example that has played for most of the year. Mincy, Washington, Hoover, Grymes, Rose. All those guys, except for Hoover were found by someone else, learned the CFL on another team and are now here. Even Hoover was a Hervey draft pick. I could be wrong but I don't remember too many championship teams that were built on nothing but vet free agents. In a cap league like the CFL, you have to go out and find all these American players who are unknown, who play for cheap but turn into stars. I haven't seen that since Brock took over but Brock sure gets a ton of press about his "free agent day" when he goes big game hunting every year.

some very good questions in there. Only quibble is that Hoover wasn't drafted by Hervey -- if anything, he was a Rob Ralph pick, as he was taken in the 2017 draft, and Hervey was gone by then. Even if you said that Hervey would have taken him, by the time you get to the 4th round there are too many possibilities gone, so you can't really say who Hervey would have taken by then. He may not have taken the 2nd and 3rd round picks we did select..

[bombervu]

I could be wrong but I don't remember too many championship teams that were built on nothing but vet free agents.

2019 Winnipeg Blue Bombers.

[Sectionq]

some very good questions in there. Only quibble is that Hoover wasn't drafted by Hervey -- if anything, he was a Rob Ralph pick, as he was taken in the 2017 draft, and Hervey was gone by then. Even if you said that Hervey would have taken him, by the time you get to the 4th round there are too many possibilities gone, so you can't really say who Hervey would have taken by then. He may not have taken the 2nd and 3rd round picks we did select..

My bad on Hoover. Hervey was let go April 7 and I had it in my mind the draft was the beginning of April, not the beginning of May.

[Sectionq]

2019 Winnipeg Blue Bombers.

I looked up the Bombers 2019 roster and there sure are a lot of guys who the Bombers were their first CFL team. All their receiving core who played a significant amount, except Demski, the Bombers brought in. Their whole Oline. Lots of their defensive line, some of their defensive backfield.

[bone]

I could believe he's lazy. Look at his free agents signings since he got here? Mostly existing vets, known names. I like Walker so when Brock signed him, I was OK with it but he's a known guy. You go back to the 2015 team that won the cup. Yes there were some proven vets but if you look at the roster, there also lots of unknown, new guys to the CFL who made huge impacts. Kendal Lawrence was with the Ticats in 2014, barely played, Hervey brought him in, in 2015 and he was a very good player for the Esks. Brock went out his first year and traded for CJ Gable. Gable had been in the league for years, put up good numbers for the Ticats and they decided he was expendable because they had a guy that was better and probably cheaper. Where are Brock's Derel Walkers or McCoil's, Lacy's or Grymes. Willie Jefferson, maybe the most dominate defensive player in the league was brought in by Hervey and was very good for the Esks. All those guys came from the US, never played in the CFL, were probably dirt cheap and turned into stars.

If you look at the Elks secondary as an example that has played for most of the year. Mincy, Washington, Hoover, Grymes, Rose. All those guys, except for Hoover were found by someone else, learned the CFL on another team and are now here. Even Hoover was a Hervey draft pick. I could be wrong but I don't remember too many championship teams that were built on nothing but vet free agents. In a cap league like the CFL, you have to go out and find all these American players who are unknown, who play for cheap but turn into stars. I haven't seen that since Brock took over but Brock sure gets a ton of press about his "free agent day" when he goes big game hunting every year.

Can't think of a single first or second year CFLer free agent signing that looks to have had any long term potential except maybe Ceresna, but I wouldn't have him as a lock.

From the draft, looks like Saxelid and Boateng are the only ones that should be part of a long term solution and there's hope for Ross. Not a huge resume for five years of work. I hope there's some I'm just forgetting.

[56Parkies]

Not sure we should give up fully on Betts yet, though he definitely has underwhelmed. Scott Hutter has some upside as well at Safety before he got injured, as people were quite high on him this year. Jack-Kurdyla may be a keeper, and it's too early yet to know about Cole Nelson and Grant McDonald who were only drafted this year.

[bone]

Not sure we should give up fully on Betts yet, though he definitely has underwhelmed. Scott Hutter has some upside as well at Safety before he got injured, as people were quite high on him this year. Jack-Kurdyla may be a keeper, and it's too early yet to know about Cole Nelson and Grant McDonald who were only drafted this year.

Yeah, drafts are harder to call, as it takes a few years, but you'd like to see at least one guy per year moving their way up the lineup.

[Sectionq]

The thing about Canadian football players at least in the CFL is by the time they are drafted, a lot of them aren't exact young. What I mean is, it's not like the NHL where they aren't even grown adults year. Betts is already 26 and so far hasn't really looked very good. He has started most of the games at end and has zero sacks. That's not good. Now granted Boateq only has 2 but at least he has previous seasons where he looked good.

[bombervu]

I looked up the Bombers 2019 roster and there sure are a lot of guys who the Bombers were their first CFL team. All their receiving core who played a significant amount, except Demski, the Bombers brought in. Their whole Oline. Lots of their defensive line, some of their defensive backfield.

Most of the core was as highly paid as any comparable group in the league and filled out with guys on entry level contracts. Medlock, Bryant, Harris among others were added in 2016. It's a long list. They continue with the same philosophy now. Veteran players are easier to coach. I will give them credit for developing a strong special teams group but even there they cherry picked Mike Miller and have stubbornly hung on to others and let good young guys go. I am still expecting julian Feoli-Guidino to reappear on the roster before the season is done.

Truth is something like 85% of the players are headed for free agency in 2022 so tell me that is not a red flag of some kind. I will be personally surprised if they get another CBA done without some kind of movement from the CFL to recognize the players (and fans). The league has had it so good for so long but the old car needs to be traded in for something that works a little better imo. The proof will show up in the stands again this weekend.