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    Originally posted by Hammer24 View Post
    If I was the Elks I'd close off both upper decks except for maybe the lowest 10 rows. When demand picks up to where they need to open up more then do it. The Lions did that successfully last year for the season opener and WSF literally opening up more sections on the fly in the week leading up to the games.
    Some good discussion Hammer24. To add some numbers to your proposal you've suggested for seating, I did some calculation. For this situation, I'm only using all lower deck sections between the goal lines and the first twelve rows of the upper deck sections between the goal lines. I've gone with twelve rows because the Elks seem focused on selling rows 46-57 for single game purchases. Not sure if there is a price difference beyond row 57, but we'll go with that. Anyway, total capacity would be capped at 24,869.

    If you added a lower section for a Knothole Gang/Kids Corner it would add another 400-500 seats depending on the section. You could still configure a portion of the endzone as a "party zone" if you wanted, but you'd have to be careful not to make it so big that it balloons the max capacity. That would go against the strategy.

    If you "tarp-off" rows 58-84 (both for aesthetics and logistics), a consideration would need to be made for rain run off for the crazy weather we sometimes get. You don't wanna be sitting in row 57 and have gallons of water hitting your back off a normal vinyl tarp strategy. They need to more evenly disperse of that water. Tarps would need to be vented or slotted in some fashion.

    Should mention, none of these calculations include the themed seating at field level or the suites.
    Hope, at the end of the day connects us all, no matter how different we are

    Comment


      Lol. I hear you Hugo. I've been at CW for a couple of those "gully washer" storms that pass through. It was ugly beyond a couple of inadvertent wet t-shirt contests. I'm sure a form of netting could more than adequately replace a tarp that rain can't pass through.
      Last edited by Hammer24; 03-09-2023, 11:45 PM.

      Comment


        Originally posted by Hammer24 View Post
        Lots of thoughts on the debate here.

        FOOD CONTRACTS: bottom line whoever is awarded the contracts for any stadium and arena has to come out of the venture sporting a decent profit margin at the end of the business year. It's not like they do it all on a skeleton crew. There is considerable overhead to overcome, probably disproportionately high compared to many other food & beverage businesses given they often have to be prepared to serve between 25K and 35K customers in a matter of about 2-1/2 hours. I think we'd all badly underestimate how many food & beverage staff work a football game.

        The Lions under Doman have been offering some deals like $5 beers, margaritas and burgers in the pregame tailgate area on Terry Fox Plaza. I think there are also in stadium deals for the first 30 minute after the gates open. Those offerings are not because of Doman working a deal with Pavco. It's because the Lions are subsidizing the difference. The beer deal is only on 2 select products out of the 5 or 6 offered in the tailgaters. For every one of those $5 Stanley Park Sunsetter Wheat Ales I pay $5 for the Lions are kicking in $3.

        I can't speak to the CW food quality or selection. I was there for BC's visit late in the season. I might have had a dog but don't recall the price being any different than any other stadium. Certainly beer prices were not out of stadium norm in the CFL. When it comes to food though I do hand it to Pavco. The selection is well beyond that of the good old days of dogs, burgers and maybe chicken fingers. Lots of ethnic and other options but that doesn't mean things are cheap. Some are fairly pricey compared to a dog like $15 to $18. Overall they have 21 food concession locations under 9 "brands" plus 6 beer only stands that offer many of the usual suds brands as well as craft offerings. No idea how many in total work them but from prep to final cleanup most would put in minimum 6 hour shifts and earn union wages over $20/hr.
        https://www.bcplace.com/ready-to-return/food-beverage

        TICKET PRICES: I believe the Elks by far the cheapest ticket pricing structure in the CFL. Looks like half the stadium can be had for $120/ST. In the wonderful world of pro sports in 2023 that's almost free. I always get a kick about the ticket argument. I've read it for years in the Vancouver market for both Canucks and Lions. Fans always complaining it's too expensive for a family of 4 then cite the cost of tickets in prime locations. It's like dad says he can't afford to take the wife and Johnny and Susie to a game because it's so expensive to sit in the best seats in the house like sitting in the upper deck nosebleeds for a fraction of the cost is beneath the family's dignity. Newsflash as much as you want to give the best for your kids Johnny & Susie would probably be thrilled just to be in the building regardless of where they are sitting.

        STADIUM: not much can be done here save pulling the 2 sides together to where row 1 on both sides sits in the inside lane of the track. CW is what it is. No CFL stadium puts you farther away from the action thanks to the track. Molson also has a track but it's only 4 lanes wide with 1st row on the team bench side literally hanging over it and the benches. I've used the Google Earth ruler to find that it's 750' or 250 yds across CW from top of the East side stands to top if the West side. At one time I figured the top 20 rows in CW would be outside of BC Place looking down on the roof. When crowds were regularly 40K+ and boisterous that could be overlooked. But when you start rattling 25K and less in 55K seats so far removed from the action it's a major challenge to create the sort of atmosphere to get people coming back. It's dangerous territory to be in and a slippery slope once you get down to less than 50% capacity on a regular basis. People can forego STs and just cherry pick the games they want to see knowing they can buy excellent seats in the price point they are comfortable with any time they want to go to a game. You want to create some urgency in buying tickets by reducing the inventory. If I was the Elks I'd close off both upper decks except for maybe the lowest 10 rows. When demand picks up to where they need to open up more then do it. The Lions did that successfully last year for the season opener and WSF literally opening up more sections on the fly in the week leading up to the games.





        Great post!!

        Comment


          Originally posted by Hammer24 View Post
          Lots of thoughts on the debate here.

          FOOD CONTRACTS: bottom line whoever is awarded the contracts for any stadium and arena has to come out of the venture sporting a decent profit margin at the end of the business year. It's not like they do it all on a skeleton crew. There is considerable overhead to overcome, probably disproportionately high compared to many other food & beverage businesses given they often have to be prepared to serve between 25K and 35K customers in a matter of about 2-1/2 hours. I think we'd all badly underestimate how many food & beverage staff work a football game.

          The Lions under Doman have been offering some deals like $5 beers, margaritas and burgers in the pregame tailgate area on Terry Fox Plaza. I think there are also in stadium deals for the first 30 minute after the gates open. Those offerings are not because of Doman working a deal with Pavco. It's because the Lions are subsidizing the difference. The beer deal is only on 2 select products out of the 5 or 6 offered in the tailgaters. For every one of those $5 Stanley Park Sunsetter Wheat Ales I pay $5 for the Lions are kicking in $3.
          We also have happy hour prior to the game where I believe the beer was either 5.50 or 6.50

          Comment


            Originally posted by Hammer24 View Post
            Lol. I hear you Hugo. I've been at CW for a couple of those "gully washer" storms that pass through. It was ugly beyond a couple of inadvertent wet t-shirt contests. I'm sure a form of netting could more than adequately replace a tarp that rain can't pass through.
            I knew someone was checking me out didn't know it was you
            In Rod we trust

            Comment


              Originally posted by Hammer24 View Post
              Lots of thoughts on the debate here.

              FOOD CONTRACTS: bottom line whoever is awarded the contracts for any stadium and arena has to come out of the venture sporting a decent profit margin at the end of the business year. It's not like they do it all on a skeleton crew. There is considerable overhead to overcome, probably disproportionately high compared to many other food & beverage businesses given they often have to be prepared to serve between 25K and 35K customers in a matter of about 2-1/2 hours. I think we'd all badly underestimate how many food & beverage staff work a football game.

              The Lions under Doman have been offering some deals like $5 beers, margaritas and burgers in the pregame tailgate area on Terry Fox Plaza. I think there are also in stadium deals for the first 30 minute after the gates open. Those offerings are not because of Doman working a deal with Pavco. It's because the Lions are subsidizing the difference. The beer deal is only on 2 select products out of the 5 or 6 offered in the tailgaters. For every one of those $5 Stanley Park Sunsetter Wheat Ales I pay $5 for the Lions are kicking in $3.

              I can't speak to the CW food quality or selection. I was there for BC's visit late in the season. I might have had a dog but don't recall the price being any different than any other stadium. Certainly beer prices were not out of stadium norm in the CFL. When it comes to food though I do hand it to Pavco. The selection is well beyond that of the good old days of dogs, burgers and maybe chicken fingers. Lots of ethnic and other options but that doesn't mean things are cheap. Some are fairly pricey compared to a dog like $15 to $18. Overall they have 21 food concession locations under 9 "brands" plus 6 beer only stands that offer many of the usual suds brands as well as craft offerings. No idea how many in total work them but from prep to final cleanup most would put in minimum 6 hour shifts and earn union wages over $20/hr.
              https://www.bcplace.com/ready-to-return/food-beverage

              TICKET PRICES: I believe the Elks by far the cheapest ticket pricing structure in the CFL. Looks like half the stadium can be had for $120/ST. In the wonderful world of pro sports in 2023 that's almost free. I always get a kick about the ticket argument. I've read it for years in the Vancouver market for both Canucks and Lions. Fans always complaining it's too expensive for a family of 4 then cite the cost of tickets in prime locations. It's like dad says he can't afford to take the wife and Johnny and Susie to a game because it's so expensive to sit in the best seats in the house like sitting in the upper deck nosebleeds for a fraction of the cost is beneath the family's dignity. Newsflash as much as you want to give the best for your kids Johnny & Susie would probably be thrilled just to be in the building regardless of where they are sitting.

              STADIUM: not much can be done here save pulling the 2 sides together to where row 1 on both sides sits in the inside lane of the track. CW is what it is. No CFL stadium puts you farther away from the action thanks to the track. Molson also has a track but it's only 4 lanes wide with 1st row on the team bench side literally hanging over it and the benches. I've used the Google Earth ruler to find that it's 750' or 250 yds across CW from top of the East side stands to top if the West side. At one time I figured the top 20 rows in CW would be outside of BC Place looking down on the roof. When crowds were regularly 40K+ and boisterous that could be overlooked. But when you start rattling 25K and less in 55K seats so far removed from the action it's a major challenge to create the sort of atmosphere to get people coming back. It's dangerous territory to be in and a slippery slope once you get down to less than 50% capacity on a regular basis. People can forego STs and just cherry pick the games they want to see knowing they can buy excellent seats in the price point they are comfortable with any time they want to go to a game. You want to create some urgency in buying tickets by reducing the inventory. If I was the Elks I'd close off both upper decks except for maybe the lowest 10 rows. When demand picks up to where they need to open up more then do it. The Lions did that successfully last year for the season opener and WSF literally opening up more sections on the fly in the week leading up to the games.





              Winnipeg has the deal of all deals where the Bombers essentially replaced Winnipeg Enterprises and now control all concessions and parking revenue as well as being rebated / tax exempt the entertainment tax portion of the ticket price. Ownership of IGF is split three ways with the Bombers and it's Premier League soccer team holding two shares alongside the University of Manitoba. Thay also have a $10 million slush fund from the province for improvements and maintenance. It's a sweet deal that got pushed through on a Friday afternoon and that is just the tip of the ice berg. Food and beer did not become less expensive or improve in quality imo.

              Comment


                One thing I thought interesting was Eugene Lewis commenting that they don't need perfect balls. That attitude will be helpful vs the QB and receiver shouting at each other. Despite the big contract I can see Lewis being worth the money.

                Comment


                  Originally posted by bombervu View Post
                  One thing I thought interesting was Eugene Lewis commenting that they don't need perfect balls. That attitude will be helpful vs the QB and receiver shouting at each other. Despite the big contract I can see Lewis being worth the money.
                  Seems to be saying all the right things anyways

                  Comment


                     
                    Hope, at the end of the day connects us all, no matter how different we are

                    Comment


                      https://twitter.com/cfl_headlines/st...783293952?s=46
                      Francis wants out already , one month after signing with us

                      Comment


                        Originally posted by bombervu View Post
                        One thing I thought interesting was Eugene Lewis commenting that they don't need perfect balls. That attitude will be helpful vs the QB and receiver shouting at each other. Despite the big contract I can see Lewis being worth the money.
                        https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=NOK918-rdL8


                        Comment


                          Originally posted by dealerd View Post
                          https://twitter.com/cfl_headlines/st...783293952?s=46
                          Francis wants out already , one month after signing with us
                          This one strikes me as odd, especially as he was considered one of Jones’ disciples. Wonder if we’ll ever hear what went awry.

                          Comment


                            Originally posted by BeaverSports View Post

                            This one strikes me as odd, especially as he was considered one of Jones’ disciples. Wonder if we’ll ever hear what went awry.
                            Based on discussions last week about his twitter feed, it sounds like there was some fine print in his contract that he did not like. He was rather upset about it.

                            Sorry should have read the link above - basically says what I just said.
                            Last edited by Hugoagogo; 03-15-2023, 08:53 PM.
                            Hope, at the end of the day connects us all, no matter how different we are

                            Comment


                              DP
                              Last edited by Hugoagogo; 03-15-2023, 08:55 PM.
                              Hope, at the end of the day connects us all, no matter how different we are

                              Comment


                                Originally posted by Hugoagogo View Post

                                Based on discussions last week about his twitter feed, it sounds like there was some fine print in his contract that he did not like. He was rather upset about it.

                                Sorry should have read the link above - basically says what I just said.
                                I have no sympathy for him. Now he wants a release or trade... I dunno maybe read the entire contract before signing??? I'm sure this will show up as the bad Elks and Jones screwing over players .... its all on francis... you'd think he would have read the entire thing before signing...

                                Comment

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