GDT - Week 14: Stampeders @ Elks - The Rematch

[dealerd]

Very nice win. I am still not sold on Ford though many others are. It will be a huge mistake to go into next season without at last two new QBs.

Unfortunately Cornelius signed a two year deal with I believe 125k guaranteed money next season , unless we just keep him or release him and suck up the loss

[Mr.Prez]

Maybe I’m paranoid, but was there a bounty placed on Ford? Or they had some contest who could sack him the most? Awe was pissed a couple of times after missing a tackle on him and Judge body slammed him after the whistle on TV (which was already delayed)

[ben_the_eskimo]

There was definitely some dirty stuff going on. I think Calgary’s D was pissed after Tre made them look so stupid on Monday.

[Sectionq]

I would like to see a replay on that one as it didn’t look like PI from row 63 but they did review it and upheld the call. I thought it should have been illegal contact if anything.

If that call went against the Elks, I would have absolutely lost my mind. Was there some contact? Sure. The ball was very poorly thrown, it was very low, very short. The defender and the receiver both lunged out and the defender contacted the receiver a millisecond before the ball hit the turf. The key words in that statement being "hit the turf" and the ball easily hit the turf 3 yards short of where the receiver was. There was no way the receiver was catching that ball, I don't even think he would get a hand on it because it was soooooo short of the receiver. When they upheld the challenge, I wasn't surprised because they called PI and there was contact. The ref made the call, refs never want to be wrong or made to look like they made a mistake. So to overturn a call, there has to be pretty obvious evidence. There was contact so it was easy to justify keeping the call. It was a bad, bad, bad call that helped the Elks win. I don't want to come off as complaining. It went the Elks way and it helped them win so I will gladly take it but it just makes me shake my head at how BAD CFL refs are and makes me nervous because I know one against the Elks is coming. Fate usually evens things up

[Looner]

Thoughts on CJ Sim? He came out strong but has fizzled off in my opinion. I never get the feeling that he is going to break one, I would be using Cobb in that role as he seemed far more dangerous.

[Looner]

If that call went against the Elks, I would have absolutely lost my mind. Was there some contact? Sure. The ball was very poorly thrown, it was very low, very short. The defender and the receiver both lunged out and the defender contacted the receiver a millisecond before the ball hit the turf. The key words in that statement being "hit the turf" and the ball easily hit the turf 3 yards short of where the receiver was. There was no way the receiver was catching that ball, I don't even think he would get a hand on it because it was soooooo short of the receiver. When they upheld the challenge, I wasn't surprised because they called PI and there was contact. The ref made the call, refs never want to be wrong or made to look like they made a mistake. So to overturn a call, there has to be pretty obvious evidence. There was contact so it was easy to justify keeping the call. It was a bad, bad, bad call that helped the Elks win. I don't want to come off as complaining. It went the Elks way and it helped them win so I will gladly take it but it just makes me shake my head at how BAD CFL refs are and makes me nervous because I know one against the Elks is coming. Fate usually evens things up

I still have to go and check it out, even the highlight package didn't show much. That being said this could have been a make up call for labour day as a couple of those late drive PI's were questionable. Was listening to the 2 and out podcast, which is put on by a couple of riders fans and they agreed. That being said, the league really needs to decide what the standard is and stick with it as I don't think anyone really knows.

If they really want to produce more points, they should reduce the penalty yardage on holding from 10 to 5 and then only call the really bad ones. Its always bothered me that you can intentionally try to injure another teams QB and get a fraction of the penalty yards you will if you get call for PI.

[turftoe27]

Thoughts on CJ Sim? He came out strong but has fizzled off in my opinion. I never get the feeling that he is going to break one, I would be using Cobb in that role as he seemed far more dangerous.

Totally agree. Outstanding straight line speed but hasn't shown any cutting ability yet. The good ones have speed and can shake and bake,

[Esks4ever]

Thoughts on CJ Sim? He came out strong but has fizzled off in my opinion. I never get the feeling that he is going to break one, I would be using Cobb in that role as he seemed far more dangerous.

short answer: Garbage.

I don't understand when he's starting his return he stops. Dead stop. You have mere seconds after you catch the ball to move your ass. Never Stop. If you need to stop to see a hole then your shouldn't be returning kicks. Giz got the ball and ran. He didnt catch the ball run like 5 feet and stop.

Also it appears we have zero creativity on the return game. Every return is designed to be right close to the sideline. You're now cutting off 80% of the field... a WIDE field. Its a recipe for failure. I've noticed numerous times he heads right in the middle of the mass of people by the sideline when ( it appears ) if he' just bounced it out towards the middle of the field he'd have a much larger gain..

[Sectionq]

short answer: Garbage.

I don't understand when he's starting his return he stops. Dead stop. You have mere seconds after you catch the ball to move your ass. Never Stop. If you need to stop to see a hole then your shouldn't be returning kicks. Giz got the ball and ran. He didnt catch the ball run like 5 feet and stop.

IMO, I think a good returner has a little bit of fearlessness in them. They aren't afraid to get hit. As you said, they catch the ball and they go. They aren't catching it, looking for a hole then trying to hit that hole. Those holes are only open for a second. If you are taking a second to see it, it's gone by the time you get there.

When it comes to the return game not being creative enough, I am not sure I agree that it's necessarily coaching. How many special teams coaches have been with the Esks/Elks over the last decade? Some years they would switching guys every season. It has to be 5 or 6 at least. (maybe someone else knows the exact number?). Either way, they have had quite a few different coaches over the years and IMO, it can't be that everyone of them just does the same thing over and over again that doesn't work. Again, I think a lot of it comes down to the returner. I am sure sometimes it's blocking but if the expectation the only way you get a return is if it's blocked perfectly, I just don't think it's realistic. I went to a lot of games in the Giz years and I remember the other team would try to trap him to the sidelines with the kick. I remember seeing him looking down the field scanning the cover team, scanning his blockers, seeing where things were going to get set up and as the ball was coming into his hands, if he didn't like what he saw BOOM, he was reversing it going the other way. Many times you'd see the blockers having to slam on the brakes and try to complete adjust their blocking because Giz was going off script. So I just think a lot of it is the returners they have got over the years, don't read the play very well. They stay on script no matter what vs taking the ball and just going.

[Looner]

IMO, I think a good returner has a little bit of fearlessness in them. They aren't afraid to get hit. As you said, they catch the ball and they go. They aren't catching it, looking for a hole then trying to hit that hole. Those holes are only open for a second. If you are taking a second to see it, it's gone by the time you get there.

When it comes to the return game not being creative enough, I am not sure I agree that it's necessarily coaching. How many special teams coaches have been with the Esks/Elks over the last decade? Some years they would switching guys every season. It has to be 5 or 6 at least. (maybe someone else knows the exact number?). Either way, they have had quite a few different coaches over the years and IMO, it can't be that everyone of them just does the same thing over and over again that doesn't work. Again, I think a lot of it comes down to the returner. I am sure sometimes it's blocking but if the expectation the only way you get a return is if it's blocked perfectly, I just don't think it's realistic. I went to a lot of games in the Giz years and I remember the other team would try to trap him to the sidelines with the kick. I remember seeing him looking down the field scanning the cover team, scanning his blockers, seeing where things were going to get set up and as the ball was coming into his hands, if he didn't like what he saw BOOM, he was reversing it going the other way. Many times you'd see the blockers having to slam on the brakes and try to complete adjust their blocking because Giz was going off script. So I just think a lot of it is the returners they have got over the years, don't read the play very well. They stay on script no matter what vs taking the ball and just going.

Agreed, you don't often see a returner bouncing around and then returning it for a TD. Guys like Leake make their decision and hit it with speed.

[Sectionq]

Agreed, you don't often see a returner bouncing around and then returning it for a TD. Guys like Leake make their decision and hit it with speed.

Exactly. The guys that to do well with returning, seem to know what they are doing before they catch the ball. So as soon as it's in their hands, they are off and running. So if the defenders aren't perfectly in their lanes, this often catches the defenders on their heels because they all of a sudden have to stop and change directions. I thought Saulsberry last year seemed to do that reasonably well. Vs Sims and others before him, don't seem to do that. They catch the ball, do a quick scan of the blocking, then decide their route. So on the rare occasion it gets perfectly blocked, they get a return but expecting your special teams to block everything perfectly, isn't realistic. So I wonder if how the Elks scout and select guys who they think would be good returners needs to be looked at because after after year the returners they bring in seem hesitant to just take off and run immediately.

[ben_the_eskimo]

Thoughts on CJ Sim? He came out strong but has fizzled off in my opinion. I never get the feeling that he is going to break one, I would be using Cobb in that role as he seemed far more dangerous.

Yeah I’m ready to move on from Sims, doesn’t seem like a threat to break one, and makes a lot of boneheaded plays from a football IQ standpoint.

[BeaverSports]

I’m also convinced Cobb is a better returner. He drops his shoulder and runs hard. I wouldn’t mind seeing a guy like Brooks field a few too.

[Eskie54]

There was definitely some dirty stuff going on. I think Calgary’s D was pissed after Tre made them look so stupid on Monday.

Yeah, he made some of them look pretty stupid in the rematch too. Cameron Judge was totally bagged at the end of the game.