2015 Edmonton Rush thread

[Lick My Cleats]

Re: 2015 Edmonton Rush thread

It'd be in Urbans best interest to sell to the OEG at this, a time of strength with the club. Perhaps after that if it is signed and sealed, maybe Katz does sign a non-compete with NL and have the Rush be a main tenant at Rexall in its current state. Katz may not want the team downtown, despite having the other sporting properties there already. This way the Rush could leverage the best dates possible without having to go against 2 hockey clubs, and have a facility to practice and play in consistently, instead of having to practice in Leduc and Millennium Place.

The Rush model should be built on a 10,000 seat plan, and could work very well at the old barn for years to come. And hey, they could then hang all the banners they want!

Only if he gets a real offer, if he get's a BS offer it is actually in his best interest to move the team and I am fairly certain that this is what will happen followed by the OEG getting an expansion NLL team.

The Rush plan is modeled after a 10K seating plan and in the early years that's what they averaged. Now the team needs 8,000ish and/or go deep in the playoffs like 2014 and 2015. I could see this team getting over 10K in Saskatoon and having a good rivalry with Calgary, while we in Edmonton watch an expansion team go 2-16 for the next 5 to 7 years.

[Lick My Cleats]

Re: 2015 Edmonton Rush thread

Future growth? That doesn't mean SFA when no one else wants them and Katz can just force them out of town and get an expansion team for 3M.

Major league sports ownership up until the last decade was more like art collecting than a business. It was about being part of an exclusive club and able to impress your other rich buddies. Losing money wasn't really an issue, in fact in some ways it was a modern potlatch in that it just showed how much of a big shot one was that they could blow money in a high profile manner... and if you were lucky you'd make back your operational losses with a big sale price as more and more people wanted to be part of the club... as the money got bigger and bigger this became less and less the case, and with TV contracts exploding it's almost a thing of the past now. There is still the prestige, but there is also the profitability.

None of that really extended into minor league sports however.

And if there are riches at the end of that rainbow, why didn't Urban reap them? I somehow doubt it's altruism. Valuations aren't based on vague notions of future riches, and business are only worth what someone else is willing to pay for it.

Valuations are always based on future growth and depending on industry intangible assets like intellectual property are assigned a value by a third party based on future earnings. In other industries valuations are based on actual past earnings and a multiplier and yet others included inventory. There is no one magical formula.

The OEG can be as arrogant as they want and insist that the team should be just given away, but I am very certain the Rush will move to Saskatoon. I hope they flourish in Saskatoon and then go on to win multiple championships to flaunt it in the arrogant face of the OEG.

[Lick My Cleats]

Re: 2015 Edmonton Rush thread

The only thing that'll get 12K in the seats consistently is a lower price point. No amount of marketing can help out if the numbers stay the same. It's just not feasible for Joe Fan to shell out $50/seat plus plus, to take his family to a 2nd/3rd tier sport in this city. The price point needs to align with junior hockey markets, even though it's a professional league.

There was over 12,000 at the playoff game and there has been 12,000 for regular season games against Calgary .... My season tickets were $35.00 / game / ticket ... one can pick up tickets for $25.00 ... Calgary gets over 11K per game at the same prices and you are saying we are not as good as Calgary as a fan base, well maybe you are right. Maybe Edmonton sucks a as a spots town, it is just an Event and Hockey town now.

Oh well ... hope the OEG never make a play for the Esks, because it will ruin what is great about the organization ... its community connection ... wait aren't the Stamps owned by the Flames ... oh ya they are ... and aren't the Oilers thumbing their noses at the Esks ... just like the Rush ... well I am sure Mayor Iveson will block any play ... wait you say he is a do nothing weenie who puckers up to Katz backside .... hmmmmmmm made this isn't as solid as one would like.

[Deathsdoorstep]

Re: 2015 Edmonton Rush thread

Calgary has an much easier time of it. The Flames own the Roughnecks (and a majority of the Stampeders as well). They use each brand to promote the other brands. Buy Rooughnecks season seats and you get a free ticket to a Stampeders game, etc etc etc.

[Muley69]

Re: 2015 Edmonton Rush thread

Valuations are always based on future growth and depending on industry intangible assets like intellectual property are assigned a value by a third party based on future earnings. In other industries valuations are based on actual past earnings and a multiplier and yet others included inventory. There is no one magical formula.

The OEG can be as arrogant as they want and insist that the team should be just given away, but I am very certain the Rush will move to Saskatoon. I hope they flourish in Saskatoon and then go on to win multiple championships to flaunt it in the arrogant face of the OEG.

Given the lack of flights in and out of that center, I would hope the NLL would block the move as it would not be in the best interests of the league.

[Lick My Cleats]

Re: 2015 Edmonton Rush thread

Calgary has an much easier time of it. The Flames own the Roughnecks (and a majority of the Stampeders as well). They use each brand to promote the other brands. Buy Rooughnecks season seats and you get a free ticket to a Stampeders game, etc etc etc.

Agreed ... plus folks like my Nephew buy anything to do with the Flames, just by association and this is why the OEG want the Rush or another NLL team .... for a similar model ... but they should still pay fair market value for the team and not try to force the sale.

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Given the lack of flights in and out of that center, I would hope the NLL would block the move as it would not be in the best interests of the league.

The NLL will most likely not block the move since they are in cities like Rochester, population 210,358 and no direct major air service.

[gizmo fan 2]

Re: 2015 Edmonton Rush thread

Urban had no problem running to the media to whine. If this was even remotely true, we would have heard about it.

It is true. There was an offer back around the time I worked for the team. Don't think anything came of it other than to deepen the rift between the Oilers and Rush.

I loathe Katz, but I don't get this logic, he should get decent value because he has no leverage and a money losing business? If you're losing money, the only real value the Rush have is indirect and based on that the NLL wants 3M for an expansion franchise.

Saying you should get a premium price for a business because you've lost money on it is absurd... like when Braley wanted 20M for the Argos. The Argos were worth nothing too, the only way he got anything for them was the CFL awarded them two Grey Cups to host and effectively paid Bell/Tanenbaum to pay Braley to go away.

Agreed. "Should" get value for it doesn't make sense - if the Oilers don't want to pony up $3M+ for a championship team and some history, let them get the expansion and Urban can keep the team and move it whereever. Nothing wrong with any of that. However, the team CAN be worth a lot more to the Oilers through filled dates and future ancillary revenues at the rink, which should be considered in any sale.

It'd be in Urbans best interest to sell to the OEG at this, a time of strength with the club. Perhaps after that if it is signed and sealed, maybe Katz does sign a non-compete with NL and have the Rush be a main tenant at Rexall in its current state. Katz may not want the team downtown, despite having the other sporting properties there already. This way the Rush could leverage the best dates possible without having to go against 2 hockey clubs, and have a facility to practice and play in consistently, instead of having to practice in Leduc and Millennium Place.

The Rush model should be built on a 10,000 seat plan, and could work very well at the old barn for years to come. And hey, they could then hang all the banners they want!

They actually love practicing in Leduc - makes for easy logistics as all the guys fly in on a Thursday night (or whenever) and they can hold a practice right then instead of having to come into the city. Makes a ton of sense really. I don't see that going away any time soon.

Agreed, I really hope Rexall sticks around and is usable for mid-tier things. A packed 10k in there would be a really fun atmosphere.

It is not a simple fact of did the Rush make or lose money, its about future earnings. What you are missing is the first 8 years of losses to build a brand, but the last two seasons the Rush are in the black.

They are in the black, yes, and winning has helped that. But they are only in the black because they have severely cut back on other things while raising ticket prices - in-game experience, marketing, staff, etc. They do a great job in a lot of ways but honestly, off the field the team is being run on a shoestring outside of the crazy promotions like the NFL cheerleaders and MMA guys and whatnot.

The only thing that'll get 12K in the seats consistently is a lower price point. No amount of marketing can help out if the numbers stay the same. It's just not feasible for Joe Fan to shell out $50/seat plus plus, to take his family to a 2nd/3rd tier sport in this city. The price point needs to align with junior hockey markets, even though it's a professional league.

They need to keep winning for that to happen, and decide who they're marketing to and go from there. I agree that they need to lower the entry point (not much - $20-25 isn't bad, as long as they have a family pack available/good group deals/etc.), and it wouldn't hurt to lower the top end a bit also, but I think $50ish isn't so bad for a top-end ticket.

It would also help if they put some of that back into the in-game experience etc. It's been almost exactly the same for about 4 years.

Calgary has an much easier time of it. The Flames own the Roughnecks (and a majority of the Stampeders as well). They use each brand to promote the other brands. Buy Rooughnecks season seats and you get a free ticket to a Stampeders game, etc etc etc.

They have so many economies of scale and cross-promotions etc. it's ridiculous. Ridiculous and smart. *******s.

Given the lack of flights in and out of that center, I would hope the NLL would block the move as it would not be in the best interests of the league.

The NLL will most likely not block the move since they are in cities like Rochester, population 210,358 and no direct major air service.

Don't forget that this is a fly-in league. The players and coaches don't live in the city they play for. The Toronto-Buffalo-Rochester area is the heart of the league and home to a vast majority of the players. Any team within driving distance of the GTA will be fine. It's the teams outside of that area that need the air service, and Saskatoon doesn't have enough flights to Toronto and Vancouver (the other box lacrosse centre on the continent) to make it easy. Ideally there would be direct air service to the rest of the division as well for home-and-homes/back-to-back weekends, and Saskatoon doesn't have a Denver flight either.

I don't think this would be the sole factor in holding a team out of Saskatoon but I think it would be one of the deciding ones and it's not in their favour.

[Rids]

Re: 2015 Edmonton Rush thread

Giz it doesn't matter if you can fly from Saskatoon to Denver it really only matters if the players from Vancouver and Toronto can get to Saskatoon for the home games and they'd find a way to make that work. Air Canada flies into Saskatoon from both Vancouver and Toronto daily and WestJet goes Toronto to Saskatoon daily too.

http://yxe.ca/flights/destinations

If Uncasville, Connecticut can handle a team then Saskatoon shouldn't be an issue.

[gizmo fan 2]

Re: 2015 Edmonton Rush thread

Giz it doesn't matter if you can fly from Saskatoon to Denver it really only matters if the players from Vancouver and Toronto can get to Saskatoon for the home games and they'd find a way to make that work. Air Canada flies into Saskatoon from both Vancouver and Toronto daily and WestJet goes Toronto to Saskatoon daily too.

http://yxe.ca/flights/destinations

If Uncasville, Connecticut can handle a team then Saskatoon shouldn't be an issue.

But are the flight schedules good enough that the players don't have to take an extra day or half-day just to fly in and out? (I honestly have no idea there.)

And while it's not a make-or-break thing, I think it does matter a bit in the league's eyes whether there is connectivity to other teams in order to schedule two-game weekends depending on arena dates. Both Edmonton and Calgary had home-and-homes with Colorado this year (and Rush had one with Vancouver as well). You're right in that I have no idea how they're doing it in Connecticut - though it is only an hour to Hartford airport with direct Toronto flights.

[Inquiring Mind]

Re: 2015 Edmonton Rush thread

And so it ends...

BREAKING NEWS: The Edmonton Rush moving to Saskatoon. Announcement on Tuesday. @KevinKarius with details in 10min on @GlobalEdmonton #yeg

— Kevin Jesus (@GlobalJesus) July 17, 2015

It's too bad, but you could read the writing on the wall when they were doing nothing with all the championship goodwill

[Section N]

Re: 2015 Edmonton Rush thread

In the works for years. Tough to see a winner leave town, but it was inevitable.

[Deathsdoorstep]

Re: 2015 Edmonton Rush thread

And so it ends...

BREAKING NEWS: The Edmonton Rush moving to Saskatoon. Announcement on Tuesday. @KevinKarius with details in 10min on @GlobalEdmonton #yeg

— Kevin Jesus (@GlobalJesus) July 17, 2015

It's too bad, but you could read the writing on the wall when they were doing nothing with all the championship goodwill

Bruce Urban is a horrible sports owner. But if you were him, would you agree to sell the Rush to Katz for a dollar?

[BaronAmongYou]

Re: 2015 Edmonton Rush thread

I hate how modern sport principles stomp on everything I believed when I was a kid. The Oilers are such an unlikable company now that it's hard to cheer for them or any of their subsidiaries. But, on the other hand, I can't honestly say I disagree with how they're running the business. 2015 reality has ruined the joyous parts of 1985 me.

[glenvb]

Re: 2015 Edmonton Rush thread

2015 reality has ruined the joyous parts of 1985 me.

That's what I say every time I step on a weigh scale.

[Diesel]

Re: 2015 Edmonton Rush thread

Katz wants to own all the pro sports franchises in Edm. Urban's a bit of a minor league dick compared to Katz, but I applauded his f.u stance to the sOilers once they started crapping all over him when he didn't want to sell

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The Oilers are such an unlikable company now

so true

Going to take years to disinfect the laforge stink