Most American Politicians Are Self Serving Idiots

[Traxy]

Re: Most American Politicians Are Self Serving Idiots

Why does anyone need a sport bike that can go 350km/h? Why does anyone need a truck with a 20" lift?

Both of these items need to be registered and insured by law, and you need a special license to operate them. The same cannot be said for guns in the US.

[boydo]

Re: Most American Politicians Are Self Serving Idiots

Both of these items need to be registered and insured by law, and you need a special license to operate them. The same cannot be said for guns in the US.

If anything needs a graduated license system it's motorbikes...

[Deathsdoorstep]

Re: Most American Politicians Are Self Serving Idiots

If anything needs a graduated license system it's motorbikes...

If motorbikes were a new invention they would be illegal.

[Traxy]

Re: Most American Politicians Are Self Serving Idiots

I just don't get the opposition to intelligent gun control laws. Why should guns be treated differently than motor vehicles? To drive a car, you need to take both a written test and a drivers test to obtain a license, you need to register your vehicle, you need to insure your vehicle and you have to operate it within a very strict set of laws if you want to keep it. You need a separate license to operate a motorcycle, or an 18 wheeler, or a bus. Too many mistakes and you lose your right to drive. You can't drive a souped up Formula 1 race car, or a tank, or any number of other motorized vehicles on the road.

Why should guns be treated any differently?

[Diesel]

Re: Most American Politicians Are Self Serving Idiots

Both of these items need to be registered and insured by law, and you need a special license to operate them. The same cannot be said for guns in the US.

And each of them can and do cause carnage oh the highways daily, to a far higher degree. Obviously all those laws work...

[Diesel]

Re: Most American Politicians Are Self Serving Idiots

If motorbikes were a new invention they would be illegal.

Why?

[Diesel]

Re: Most American Politicians Are Self Serving Idiots

I just don't get the opposition to intelligent gun control laws. Why should guns be treated differently than motor vehicles? To drive a car, you need to take both a written test and a drivers test to obtain a license, you need to register your vehicle, you need to insure your vehicle and you have to operate it within a very strict set of laws if you want to keep it. You need a separate license to operate a motorcycle, or an 18 wheeler, or a bus. Too many mistakes and you lose your right to drive. You can't drive a souped up Formula 1 race car, or a tank, or any number of other motorized vehicles on the road.

Why should guns be treated any differently?

None of those other items are covered as a right by the US constitution. As I said earlier, it's #2 on that document. Imagine for a moment if we took free speech and applied the same desires as certain people would like to gun laws.

You can have the right to free speech, but you can only say these things , not those things, and if we let you say these things, you cannot say these things in specific places. Oh, and we would like to keep a record of exactly what it is you say, y'know...for the greater good. (of what they never tell you)

You would have complete outrage and riots. Like it or not, in the US, a citizen's right to own a gun is afforded the same constitutional rights as free speech.

I agree with the concept of background checks, graduated ownership via permit, and even regular pee and noggin checks, but I will never agree with a government having a list of what I own, let alone to decide for me how to protect property, family,and lively hood

[Traxy]

Re: Most American Politicians Are Self Serving Idiots

None of those other items are covered as a right by the US constitution. As I said earlier, it's #2 on that document.

Yeah, as part of a "well regulated Militia".

Imagine for a moment if we took free speech and applied the same desires as certain people would like to gun laws.

We already do. There are tons of hate speech laws on the books. Free speech does not mean you can literally say anything you want whenever you want.

but I will never agree with a government having a list of what I own

Guess that means you'll stop registering your vehicles every year, huh?

Why rely on an ambiguously worded 250 year old document to legislate access to something as deadly as firearms? Surely we've evolved as a species enough to recognize that letting EVERYONE legally own military grade firearms is a bad idea.

[danlaurin]

Re: Most American Politicians Are Self Serving Idiots

None of those other items are covered as a right by the US constitution. As I said earlier, it's #2 on that document. Imagine for a moment if we took free speech and applied the same desires as certain people would like to gun laws.

You can have the right to free speech, but you can only say these things , not those things, and if we let you say these things, you cannot say these things in specific places. Oh, and we would like to keep a record of exactly what it is you say, y'know...for the greater good. (of what they never tell you)

You would have complete outrage and riots. Like it or not, in the US, a citizen's right to own a gun is afforded the same constitutional rights as free speech.

I agree with the concept of background checks, graduated ownership via permit, and even regular pee and noggin checks, but I will never agree with a government having a list of what I own, let alone to decide for me how to protect property, family,and lively hood

By the Way even though I stand 100% behind legislating extra background checks and registering every weapon I own. I own 2 12 gauges,a 30-30, .303 Lee Enfield which was my Grandfather's in WW2, an M-1 Carbine My Grandfather traded an American soldier for at the end of WW 2, A Weatherby Mark V .460 magnum, an 1835 Black Powder rifle (Not even a gun according to the rules) Its a Hawken 50 cal I picked up as a conversation piece at the Gun and Knife show in Detroit for only 350 a real steal. A .22 my dad gave me for Christmas when I was 7, and an old .410 from my Grandfather. I do use them for hunting deer, ducks, grouse, and moose and have no problems with registering all of them.

I know some people say registration is only to facilitate the government confiscating weapons but that is tinfoil hat thinking in my opinion.

[Traxy]

Re: Most American Politicians Are Self Serving Idiots

And each of them can and do cause carnage oh the highways daily, to a far higher degree. Obviously all those laws work...

You're right, we should just remove all the driving laws. Surely that will make things better. Drive as fast as you want as drunk as you want, because clearly the existing laws are not helping at all.

[Deathsdoorstep]

Re: Most American Politicians Are Self Serving Idiots

None of those other items are covered as a right by the US constitution. As I said earlier, it's #2 on that document. Imagine for a moment if we took free speech and applied the same desires as certain people would like to gun laws.

You can have the right to free speech, but you can only say these things , not those things, and if we let you say these things, you cannot say these things in specific places. Oh, and we would like to keep a record of exactly what it is you say, y'know...for the greater good. (of what they never tell you)

You would have complete outrage and riots. Like it or not, in the US, a citizen's right to own a gun is afforded the same constitutional rights as free speech.

I agree with the concept of background checks, graduated ownership via permit, and even regular pee and noggin checks, but I will never agree with a government having a list of what I own, let alone to decide for me how to protect property, family,and lively hood

First of all, the right to bear arms is indeed in the US constitution. So was prohibition. And like the 18th amendment (which was repealed by the 21st) the second amendment can, and should, be repealed.

Second, the government does have a list of some if the things you own. Such as vehicles, and in many places, pets.

Third, just because something is in the constitution doesn't mean it's right. The second amendment was passed in 1791. It is obsolete. Was it right to deny women the vote? They didn't get it until the constitution was amended in 1920. US Senators were not elected by popular vote until the 17th amendment in 1913. Slavery wasn't abolished until the 13th amendment in 1865.

Finally, the right to bear "arms" is not necessarily limited to firearms. It's "arms". Like I asked before, should you have the right to own a bazooka? Grenades?

I'm sorry, but just because you may have the right to have a bolt action hunting rifle doesn't mean you should have the right to own an assault rifle, machine gun, or Glock let alone a bazooka or grenades.

[Diesel]

Re: Most American Politicians Are Self Serving Idiots

You're right, we should just remove all the driving laws. Surely that will make things better. Drive as fast as you want as drunk as you want, because clearly the existing laws are not helping at all.

There are already 50 existing statutes covering gun control and legislation in the US now. Clearly they need a 51st that will fix everything...

[Diesel]

Re: Most American Politicians Are Self Serving Idiots

First of all, the right to bear arms is indeed in the US constitution. So was prohibition. And like the 18th amendment (which was repealed by the 21st) the second amendment can, and should, be repealed.

That will never happen in any of our lifetimes. You know it as well as I.

[Traxy]

Re: Most American Politicians Are Self Serving Idiots

There are already 50 existing statutes covering gun control and legislation in the US now. Clearly they need a 51st that will fix everything...

How many gun control laws are too many? Would 20 do the trick? How about 10?

There are a thousand different laws governing driving, right? Do you think we'd be safer on the road if they did away with laws on speeding? How about drinking and driving? The seatbelt law was enacted 25 years ago...should they not have bothered since there were "50 existing statutes" covering operating a motor vehicle already?

They were proposing expanding background checks to private sales at gun shows, banning assault weapons and limiting magazine sizes. None of these are existing laws on the books and all of them make a ton of sense.

[Diesel]

Re: Most American Politicians Are Self Serving Idiots

How many gun control laws are too many? Would 20 do the trick? How about 10?

There are a thousand different laws governing driving, right? Do you think we'd be safer on the road if they did away with laws on speeding? How about drinking and driving? The seatbelt law was enacted 25 years ago...should they not have bothered since there were "50 existing statutes" covering operating a motor vehicle already?

They were proposing expanding background checks to private sales at gun shows, banning assault weapons and limiting magazine sizes. None of these are existing laws on the books and all of them make a ton of sense.

It's painfully obvious that trying to cure the symptom and not the disease is killing the patient. Why not go after the root causes?

You all ignore the simple undeniable truth that you could ban every gun tomorrow and mass killings would not stop. Period. The root causes for such violence continues on.

You could build a device from over the counter items at home depot that could be stashed in a garbage can at any bus stop, transit station, or whathaveyou and if you were so inclined, kill dozens if not more at a time.

If social engineers have proven anything, it's that you cannot stop crime by going after innocent law biding citizens.