Speeding

[nafnikufesin]

Not sure if anyone saw this article in the Journal today: http://www.edmontonjournal.com/news/...786/story.html

It coincides with a few friends that have recently received speeding tickets for going 10 over, which I'd never seen before (I had seen tickets for 11 over though).

I have a question about this (well, there's a lot of questions about this, but most of that is personal opinion about cash grabs): I have been under the assumption that there is a margin of error on the radar equipment. At one time that margin was as high as 10%, though I'm sure with more modern equipment that margin is much lower these days. On top of that, there have been, at least in the past, different "grades" of tickets, like 1-10 over, 11-15 over, etc. each with an increase in demerits (for non-photo tickets) and increase in the fine. I think one of the main reasons that tickets haven't been given out for 10 or less over the speed limit is that a person can go to court and plead the lesser charge, which is generally always accepted given the margin of error on the equipment. Since the "lesser charge" of 1-10 over is nothing, those tickets would generally be thrown out.

Has something changed? Have they changed the laws so that different grades of tickets exist, or is radar equipment that much better that there is absolutely no margin of error? If nothing has changed, are they not just setting the courthouses up to be filled up with a ton of minor violations?

[Inquiring Mind]

Re: Speeding

I got a couple tickets last year, the first (and second) in well over a decade... but they were both in the 16-17 km/h range, not 10. Maybe it was just bad luck, but it wouldn't surprise me if they're getting more aggressive with them (both mine were at on major highway locations right where the speeds dropped). I mean, I was going faster than posted and paid the fines, but nailing people right at the signs doesn't really seem to me to be necessarily within the spirit of the law.

[Jtuck09]

Re: Speeding

Not sure if anyone saw this article in the Journal today: http://www.edmontonjournal.com/news/...786/story.html

It coincides with a few friends that have recently received speeding tickets for going 10 over, which I'd never seen before (I had seen tickets for 11 over though).

I have a question about this (well, there's a lot of questions about this, but most of that is personal opinion about cash grabs): I have been under the assumption that there is a margin of error on the radar equipment. At one time that margin was as high as 10%, though I'm sure with more modern equipment that margin is much lower these days. On top of that, there have been, at least in the past, different "grades" of tickets, like 1-10 over, 11-15 over, etc. each with an increase in demerits (for non-photo tickets) and increase in the fine. I think one of the main reasons that tickets haven't been given out for 10 or less over the speed limit is that a person can go to court and plead the lesser charge, which is generally always accepted given the margin of error on the equipment. Since the "lesser charge" of 1-10 over is nothing, those tickets would generally be thrown out.

Has something changed? Have they changed the laws so that different grades of tickets exist, or is radar equipment that much better that there is absolutely no margin of error? If nothing has changed, are they not just setting the courthouses up to be filled up with a ton of minor violations?

You are right. There is a margin of error with those devices and if you get a good lawyer he'll fight it in court for you based on calibration of the machine. If people are getting tickets now going 10 over that's going to cause some issues for sure.

[Angelus]

Re: Speeding

My last ticket was for going 80 in a 70 zone.

Speeding is speeding so meh.

[boydo]

Re: Speeding

Pretty simple. Keep it at the limit and you don't have to worry about it. The difference in time you save is so negligible that it's not worth the risk.

[Section N]

Re: Speeding

I'd say 10 over on the Henday or Whitemud is more acceptable in the eyes of the photogs as opposed to 60 in a 50, or 70 in a 60.

That said, what does doing 10 over get you, one minute of extra time, or two spots ahead in the Tim Hortons drive thru, come on.

I sped a lot fresh out of high school, paid my dues, took some defensive driving courses, and learned my lesson. If you don't want a ticket, don't speed. Simple.

[Muley69]

Re: Speeding

My wife, as a transportation engineer, actually has a ton of technical knowledge about the Traffic Safety Act and the setting of speed limits.

On the latter item, there is a suprising amount of science and engineering work that goes into the establishment of a speed limit. Long story short, and despite what some dubious videos on the internet try to claim, the establishment of a speed limit is NOT SET with the "sole purpose" of nailing speeders.

If you believe that, you may as well hop on board with the 9/11 Truthers.

Typical weather conditions, traffic volume, weave distance, driver reaction time, lighting, curvature of the road, and many other variables all play a part in the establishment of a speed limit.

All provinces in Canada have their own guidelines / policies for the establishment of these kinds of thing (and many, many, many other transportation items like signage, lighting, road construction, etc. etc) that generally say the same kinds of things and are applied consistently in the province. From time-to-time, the standards are revised and/or things change (i.e. new intersections added, or an overpass created) which would warrant a CHANGE in the speed limit but it takes time for the province to get around to conducting a review to consider changing it.

Finally, my understanding is that these are "best practices" rather than the law and any municipality can exempt itself from certain sections. Bigger cities, like Edmonton and Calgary, are more likely to do this...but smaller towns may do so as well, expecially if the change in standards would increase costs.

[Deathsdoorstep]

Re: Speeding

I never speed. I used to go 5-10 kph over but stopped doing that a while back. Quite frankly, I don't think there's enough enforcement out there and I hate that Strathcona County ditched photo radar more than a year ago.

There are no less than 5 major construction zones in and around Sherwood Park. With no photo radar people fly through those zones like their asses are on fire. Yellowhead and Henday is an 80 zone from the river to highway 16 and people completely disregard it. Haven't seen even one person get stopped.

Giving someone a $57 ticket for 1 kph over is ridiculous. But at 10 kph over you just can't argue. You can't.

[Opus]

Re: Speeding

My wife, as a transportation engineer, actually has a ton of technical knowledge about the Traffic Safety Act and the setting of speed limits.

On the latter item, there is a suprising amount of science and engineering work that goes into the establishment of a speed limit. Long story short, and despite what some dubious videos on the internet try to claim, the establishment of a speed limit is NOT SET with the "sole purpose" of nailing speeders.

If you believe that, you may as well hop on board with the 9/11 Truthers.

Typical weather conditions, traffic volume, weave distance, driver reaction time, lighting, curvature of the road, and many other variables all play a part in the establishment of a speed limit.

All provinces in Canada have their own guidelines / policies for the establishment of these kinds of thing (and many, many, many other transportation items like signage, lighting, road construction, etc. etc) that generally say the same kinds of things and are applied consistently in the province. From time-to-time, the standards are revised and/or things change (i.e. new intersections added, or an overpass created) which would warrant a CHANGE in the speed limit but it takes time for the province to get around to conducting a review to consider changing it.

Finally, my understanding is that these are "best practices" rather than the law and any municipality can exempt itself from certain sections. Bigger cities, like Edmonton and Calgary, are more likely to do this...but smaller towns may do so as well, expecially if the change in standards would increase costs.

With all do respect Muley, there's a pretty good foundation of bullshyte in there as well.

While I don't doubt that a lot of thought goes into establishing a speed limit, it is fairly obvious that in many cases it is artificially low. That is not the real issue though, the issue is "where" they set up photo enforcement, and typically it is in an area that traps speeders: downhill, sudden lower limits despite no change in width or meridian, or other.

Society has become completely compliant though, so it's not surprising.

[Muley69]

Re: Speeding

Sorry Opus, but you have a tin foil hat on. Pure and simple.

There are ZERO -- I repeat ZERO Engineers who recommend speed limits based on politics. NONE.



Edit: I've seen this video before. With due respect, the author leaves out a number of items from the video...because, of course, those OTHER points weaken his "argument".

It is literally in the same vein as:

- 9/11 was an inside job youtube video,

- Sandy Hook was an inside job video

- Area 51 is a covert government conspiracy, etc.


The police DO NOT SET speed limits. That is the sole responsibility of the Ministry of Transportation of a Province and are not set by a politician, but rather an engineer who does not (in ANY WAY) benefit from a higher or a lower speed limit which creates "speed traps"

[Opus]

Re: Speeding

Sorry Opus, but you have a tin foil hat on. Pure and simple.

There are ZERO -- I repeat ZERO Engineers who recommend speed limits based on politics. NONE.



Edit: I've seen this video before. With due respect, the author leaves out a number of items from the video...because, of course, those OTHER points weaken his "argument".

It is literally in the same vein as:

- 9/11 was an inside job youtube video,

- Sandy Hook was an inside job video

- Area 51 is a covert government conspiracy, etc.


The police DO NOT SET speed limits. That is the sole responsibility of the Ministry of Transportation of a Province and are not set by a politician, but rather an engineer who does not (in ANY WAY) benefit from a higher or a lower speed limit which creates "speed traps"

No, it's not....and with all due respect my friend, I don't believe your wife is incompetent at her job. So when I see a stretch of road for example like Fort Road over 6 lanes wide in some spots at the same speed as a one lane undivided residential road. Well...

The posturing to try and put it in the same vein as other conspiracies is as disingenuous as it is hillarious.

It is a cash cow, pure and simple.

[Deathsdoorstep]

Re: Speeding

I wouldn't mind seeing summer and winter speed limits. Say 120 on a highway in the summer, 90 in the winter. Main arteries 80 instead of 60 in the summer and 50 in the winter kinda thing.

[Esks1975]

Re: Speeding

I never speed. I used to go 5-10 kph over but stopped doing that a while back. Quite frankly, I don't think there's enough enforcement out there and I hate that Strathcona County ditched photo radar more than a year ago.

There are no less than 5 major construction zones in and around Sherwood Park. With no photo radar people fly through those zones like their asses are on fire. Yellowhead and Henday is an 80 zone from the river to highway 16 and people completely disregard it. Haven't seen even one person get stopped.

Giving someone a $57 ticket for 1 kph over is ridiculous. But at 10 kph over you just can't argue. You can't.

Strathcona County ditching photo radar only applies to Strathcona County roads not provincial highways.

I have no problem with people getting photo radar tickets for going 10km/h over the speed limit. That 10km/h when going 60 in a 50 zone is 20% over the speed limit. Why is Staples (and Dan Tencor) complaining? I don't want people driving past my house at 60 km/h.

[Deathsdoorstep]

Re: Speeding

Strathcona County ditching photo radar only applies to Strathcona County roads not provincial highways.

I have no problem with people getting photo radar tickets for going 10km/h over the speed limit. That 10km/h when going 60 in a 50 zone is 20% over the speed limit. Why is Staples (and Dan Tencor) complaining? I don't want people driving past my house at 60 km/h.

Fair enough. But I haven't seen one jot of enforcement in any of those zones.

[Section N]

Re: Speeding

I wouldn't mind seeing summer and winter speed limits. Say 120 on a highway in the summer, 90 in the winter. Main arteries 80 instead of 60 in the summer and 50 in the winter kinda thing.

Stupid idea, very stupid.