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Current shifting of D philosophies

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    #1

    Current shifting of D philosophies

    Anyone who follows football knows how offensive and defensive philosophies tend to go in cycles influenced by other teams successes and talent cycles. For example the new emerging trend on defence is how more teams seem to be switching to a 3-4. Weather it be to counteract the current speedy outside RB's like KK, Chuck Bob, and Avery, or because the perfect 240lb, 6"1 stud MLB is currently hard to find, or for other reasons, more teams are incorporating the 3-4 into their schemes.

    My point of this thread is not to suggest that the EE follow suit, but rather to point out that we just might have the weapon to short circuit the 3-4, and allow our offence to revive a forgotten style of offence. Deitan Dubuc could very wel lbe the first true TE we've had since Jay Christenson and could be the type of sizable physical player with the catching skills that could cause havoc with 3-4 defences, plus give our offence an added dimension when facing pressure defences like Montreal. Currently when teams have gone double TE to handle defensive pressure, they are doing it with a FB and a SB or two slots.

    I'd like to hear Mobes and Jed's input as to what a 3-4 defence would have to worry about in both the running and passing game when faced with a TE set? I know BC at times uses Clermont in a similar role.
    I will not, for a moment longer, support an organization who chooses to cowardly kneel where they once fiercely & proudly stood
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    #2
    Re: Current shifting of D philosophies

    If we establish, especially early in a game Dubuc being used as a TE we could defenitly shape and/or effect a defences play calling. That's the reason why I predict Dubuc turning into a star.
    My 2 favourite teams are the esks and whoevers playin the stamps!!!

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      #3
      Re: Current shifting of D philosophies

      first off i'd like to say we won't be running a 3-4 defense, our linbackers aren't that type. we have speed not size so we need our d-line to protect us
      "to give anything less than your best is to sacrifice the gift"

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        #4
        Re: Current shifting of D philosophies

        I just hope we bring in an effective Dline then. Not just good players that are playing average because theyre burnt out from the arena league season. An effective Dline can help out the DB's (look at BC with their young corners playing well because of an effective line) but i'm not sure if it can be said for the other way around.
        My 2 favourite teams are the esks and whoevers playin the stamps!!!

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          #5
          Re: Current shifting of D philosophies

          That was a good post by KM on the reason a MLB is hard to find, and yeah Mtl forced a half effort re introduction of a TE, i think you may be right a tE maybe coming back to an extent, it may still be done by the FB in that role, after all many FB were TE in NCAA (or were in the recent past)

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            #6
            Re: Current shifting of D philosophies

            Originally posted by mobes27
            first off i'd like to say we won't be running a 3-4 defense, our linbackers aren't that type. we have speed not size so we need our d-line to protect us

            I didn't suggest that we would. But from your perspective, how does a cfl 3-4 match up to a TE set? Is this something we can exploit?
            I will not, for a moment longer, support an organization who chooses to cowardly kneel where they once fiercely & proudly stood

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              #7
              Re: Current shifting of D philosophies

              IMO, a 3-4 forces the linebackers to bring some pressure, as unless they do, there is not alot of pressure on the QB. There usually needs to be one or two LB's bringing it to force pressure, meaning the 3-4 needs underneath help, leaving it suceptible to things like crack screens or bubble screens. With 4 & 5 guys bringing pressure, the amount of time a QB gets is more limited & teams who have attacking and blitzing defensive philosophies (ie: Montreal) are vulnerable to a well placed screen.
              With Dubuc in at TE, the screen (or even a short slant) can attack zone blitz teams that give up an underneath zone in pass coverage and/or give the offense a chance for big plays against man-to-man blitz schemes. While it takes a quick thinking QB to recognize where the pressure originates & deliver the ball to the vacated spot, Maas is getting better at it. Conversely, disguising Dubuc as a blocker on run schemes will be fairly easy once this seed is planted in the minds of the opposing DC...
              It's 106 miles to Chicago, we've got a full tank of gas, half a pack of cigarettes, it's dark, and we're wearing sunglasses - Elwood Blues

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                #8
                Re: Current shifting of D philosophies

                The 3-4 is just a disguised version of the 4-3 as the fourth linebacker will invariably fold in on the backside of run plays to gap cancel/control.. In passing situations the 3-4's pass rush is generally predicated upon a fourth linebacker coming on the blitz, which can create headaches for OC's trying to locate tendencies with regard to which LB comes at any point of time anywhere on the field..

                In the CFL the centre is responsible for identifying and "Turning" the linebackers which comprise the heart of the defense- this sets presnap pass protection modes which then tells the runningbacks who they are resposible for on blitzes.. Teams who are weak in the area pf pass blocking at the runningback spot tend to struggle against the 3/4... The runningback has to be able to identify and pick up the blitzing lb... In zone blocking schemes such slide or turnback the thinking is eliminated inside and the perimeter is the concern- once again the rb/fb's have to bea ble to block quicker guys on the edge rather than inside..

                As far as the TE... Great for run blocking in inclement weather, IMO.. Too much of a liability on passing downs speed wise on the wide field with fewer downs.

                The weakness in the 3/4 is the seams.

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                  #9
                  Re: Current shifting of D philosophies

                  I've always thought that the 3-4 was very easy to run against and in some cases it still is (see BC in last years Grey Cup).

                  I think some of the recent success is due in part to the majority of teams don't have a FB who are fast enough or big enough to block both a defensive lineman and a LB...they only seem able to handle one or the other....Mike Sellers and Tony Burse are the last two I can think of that could handle either....
                  Before you insult a man, walk a mile in his shoes. That way, when you insult him, you'll be a mile away, and have his shoes.

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                    #10
                    Re: Current shifting of D philosophies

                    Great input, fun to read

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                      #11
                      Re: Current shifting of D philosophies

                      I agree....interesting stuff...I've never been a big fan of the 3-4. I think having that as an option at certain times is good, but not as the standard, typical D.

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                        #12
                        Re: Current shifting of D philosophies

                        myself, the only time I like to see 3 D-Lineman is when we're up by 30+ and are in a dime package....
                        Before you insult a man, walk a mile in his shoes. That way, when you insult him, you'll be a mile away, and have his shoes.

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                          #13
                          Re: Current shifting of D philosophies

                          I think certain teams use a 3-4 to have more bodies in the middle and gamble that teams won't find the weak spots due to the extra ability to disguise blitzes.
                          I will not, for a moment longer, support an organization who chooses to cowardly kneel where they once fiercely & proudly stood

                          Comment

                            #14
                            Re: Current shifting of D philosophies

                            Yeah, I think the 3-4 is more of a 'don't tip your hand' strategy these days. Someone, be it one of the 4 LBs or a DB is going to come as well.

                            I have to say though... that getting pressure with a 3 man rush - against 5 o-linemen - is a great luxury (or a huge frustration if you're on offence!).

                            [wow... I made it through a post with no puns! ]
                            Last edited by TurfToe; 04-13-2005, 10:56 AM.
                            Turf Toe:
                            - "...turf toe is a common malady that is more of a nuisance than a serious injury."
                            - "Turf toe can often progress into a chronic problem..."
                            - "A mild instance of turf toe (grade 1) can be merely aggravating while a serious case (grade 3) can be debilitating."

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