Controversy: Esks will NOT win Grey Cup this year

[Soudog]

I'm gonna step outside myself for the first time since I've been posting on the internet, lo these nine years and get a little controversial:

Write this down: THE EDMONTON ESKIMOS WILL NOT WIN THE GREY CUP IN 2005!

Hell, I've been thinking since early March they'll be lucky to make the playoffs (they basically backed in last year with a better squad, IMO) and I've seen nothing outside of RR's return to convince me otherwise. I hope I'm wrong... but I think the season will prove I'm not.

Exhibit A: 13 new starters. One loss per... simple math.

Exhibit B: Everybody else in the west, with the exception of Winnipeg got better. The Esks just got older.

Exhibit C: "Cioch" (is that Italian for "choke"?) cuts a future Hall of Famer in Robert Grant -- yeah, I know, it's only his third season... but he was one of the best defensive players we've had over the past two years (granted, that's not saying much, given last season -- they gave up 472 pts -- 4th-worst in team history!!!).

For those of you too young to remember, eight or nine years ago the big "in" thing to do was come online in one of these forums and bash Ronnie Lancaster (only the all-time winningest coach in EE history) because he cut Mike Pringle as a rookie. Now Maciocia cuts Robert Grant - who's proven himself way more than Pringle had when he was cut - and everybody cuts him some slack 'cause he's not Flanders?

Speaking of Flanders, only five head coaches in Eskimo history have a better record. I know the majority here hated Higgins, but I'm betting it takes Maciocia more than 4 season to match his record (that is, if he lasts that long).

Exhibit D: Maciocia himself. Anybody got any stats on former OC's winning the GC as Head Coach? Seems to me you look at the successful coaches throughout the history of this league, and the DC's have a way better track record. Now don't get me wrong, I like Danny Maciocia. Always have. Probably the smartest OC in the league over the last ten years. I just don't happen to think he's going to be a good Head Coach anytime soon, which brings us to...

Exhibit E: Who'd Maciocia get to replace himself as Offensive Coordinator? R.D. Lancaster. Yep, the same guy who OC'd the Bombers right out of the playoffs last year; the same guy who led the toothless tabbies to a 1-17 season 2 years ago.

Exhibit F: No apparent replacement for Pringle, no apparent replacement for Vaughn, and the already-too-apparent infighting in the locker room (does anyone really believe Hervey and Sanchez are best buds now that they're on the same team?)


Add that all up, and I don't mind saying I'm worried as hell, folks. Again, I hope I'm wrong, but I don't think I am. If this team does miss the playoffs for the first time in 34 years, Maciocia will be gone faster than an MP's credibility. And that would be a shame, 'cause in spite of everything I just said, I think someday he will be a good Head Coach. I'm just not convinced it's gonna be in Edmonton this year.

And if it turns out I am wrong, and they do win the cup, I'll gladly eat humble pie come November 28th.

[Evil Dr. Len]

Re: Controversy: Esks will NOT win Grey Cup this year

Win the Grey Cup...I hope so but maybe not.

Make the playoffs...FOR DARN SURE THEY WILL.

At QB whether it's Ray or Maas, they are playing behind IMO a better O-line which means that extra second to throw the ball. Sure losing Vaughn sucks but the team still has Hervey, Tucker & Mitchell and a slew of promising young guys. Other than maybe BC our receiving corps is still ranked quite highly.

At RB I like the idea of not having a one track mind attack as we did last year. Again, not a knock on Pringle but last year I repeatedly complained about the lack of imagination in our backfield. Well this year the team (likely) has the flashy McClendon splitting carries with the straight up Joseph/White. Just by changing the RB in the backfield you're opening up options the team didn't have last year. Will any RB get 1000 yards...likely not, will their varying styles effectively keep defences honest...I believe so.

Coaching : OK, little worried about Coach Mac & RDL & Campbell but Coach Mac has had numerous players come out in his support - - step one to being successful - - RDL has won before so the capability is in him to do it again. Campbell for whatever your opinon of him is does know this team quite well and the additions he doesn't know (Montford, Wiltshire, Sanchez are all top freakin notch additions)

Additions: yes 13 new starters is scary, I have posted in a few threads that the "easy first quarter" of the season, will likely be the hardest quarter of the season because you've got a group of players who aren't gelled yet and their being led by rookie coaches. But as the season goes on the team will gel...the "age factor" you mentioned will actually be beneficial to the gelling process IMO

As for your notion of in-fighting, nowhere in the rulebook does it say you need to like everyone in the dressing room espically guys who play the opposite side of the ball than you do. All the players are professionals, they'll do their jobs on the field - - that's all that matters.

As for Robert Grant, maybe I'm undervaluing him but IMO you're overvaluing him. Time will tell.

[Oiler]

Re: Controversy: Esks will NOT win Grey Cup this year

Too early to tell. Wait until the season's well underway to evaluate the moves made in the pre-season. Edmonton's got as good a chance as any team to win the G.C. IMO.

[esks4life]

Re: Controversy: Esks will NOT win Grey Cup this year

We will see. Let the guys play and let them determine where they finish. May not win the Grey Cup but playoffs are very makeable.

[Angelus]

Re: Controversy: Esks will NOT win Grey Cup this year

Exhibit A: 13 new starters. One loss per... simple math.

I think you're wrong on this. I think the adage is that a rookie will cost you one loss, not a new starter. Do you honestly believe that guy's like Montford, Wiltshire, Sanchez are going to cost us a game?

edit: And I don't think Grant is as good as you think he is.

[Beerfish]

Re: Controversy: Esks will NOT win Grey Cup this year

The old one loss per new player is silly in my mind, plain and simple.

We are stronger in the following areas than we were last year.

QB, Running back, D-line, Linebacker and much stronger ratio wise.

Our O-line is a bit of a saw off in that we lost Prinsen and Comisky but we greatly improved the all critical left tackle position. Special teams returning is a saw off at this moment but October was no world beater.

I share your concern about the assistant coaches, I was not real happy with the RDL or Rick Campbell thing but I'm willing to give them a chance.

Although I liked Grant we have an abundance of talent in that area, I would have liked to see him back returning kicks.

As with most teams injuries are a huge factor in whether we will succeed or fail, I do think we have much better depth this year than last.

[Diesel]

Re: Controversy: Esks will NOT win Grey Cup this year

Ted I respect your opinion because you've followed this team for a long while. However, from what I've seen and heard, this team has upgraded at several spots including the hunger factor. With Marsh and Winn elevating their gamers it put RG behind the eightball and he didn't have the game he needed against the bombers to get from out under.

With all the competition we have at camp cuts like these were inevitable and I don't think we're done yet.

[Chucker44]

Re: Controversy: Esks will NOT win Grey Cup this year

Sougdog, I get the feeling that you are upset by the Grant cut. Most people remember the outstanding plays that Grant has made over the years. However, the Esks weren't happy with the overall package. They brought in high quality guys to compete with him. The truth is Grant didn't push back when challenged.

I don't buy that one loss per new starter crap. If you could formulize a team's success that way then you would be a very rich man.

The Esks have made a lot of changes. Most of it because of the loss in the playoffs last year. I'm not going to guarentee anything. I still think there are questions and the answers will come soon enough.

But I do know that this team is stronger than last year. That makes me feel good about the Esks 2005 season.

[NiteHawk0]

Re: Controversy: Esks will NOT win Grey Cup this year

"Exhibit B: Everybody else in the west, with the exception of Winnipeg got better. The Esks just got older."

Please explain to me how the Riders got better. By signing Marcus Crandell as their backup QB? Or by keeping basically the same team as last year together. After the Jays won the World Series in '92 and '93, they tried standing pat during the off seasons, and we all know how well that worked out. Winnipeg has made a few improvements, so I can't see how you can say they aren't a better team this season.
The Bombers may not win the Grey Cup, or even finish first in the division, but they won't be as bad as they were last year.

"Exhibit E: Who'd Maciocia get to replace himself as Offensive Coordinator? R.D. Lancaster. Yep, the same guy who OC'd the Bombers right out of the playoffs last year; the same guy who led the toothless tabbies to a 1-17 season 2 years ago."

I may be a little biased here, but IMHO Lancaster has a few more weapons here to work with than he had the previous two seasons.

I'm not about to make any bold predictions about the Esks winning the Grey Cup, but I don't think we have to worry about the team not making the playoffs.

[mobes27]

Re: Controversy: Esks will NOT win Grey Cup this year

Well this one caught my eye, and i think i'll say something about it. First off you say we have 13 new starters can you tell me who they are?!
Just because we got older doesn't mean we didn't get better. can you show me some proof that we didn't?
Well let see you say Coach cut rob grant well for the last 2 years i've been telling rob grant to pick his game up to the naked eye he's playing good, but from his 1st year to his 2nd you get a guy making one hand ints to a guy not making those big play like he did before and this TC he really didn't care if was on the team or not so who cut him the coach or himself.
I'm sure it won't take him that long to have a better record than tom if you think tom is a great coach you joking he surrounded himself with great coaches.
Do you need any stats on any OC'S winning the GC it's not about that, you know what they say offense fills the seats and defense win championships, yes coach DM is an OC but he addressed defense this off season with players and coaches.
No i think RD is the OC figure head danny is still running the show.
well after last years run game anyone could replace pringle and the vaughn thing i'm not sure about, and yes ed and davis are friends i should know i'm ed's best friend.

on that note when we win you'll drink some Don P. out of my cleats and i'll take a picture of it ok. we won't even think about me doing because we're going to win. Mr. Soudog

[lloyd]

Re: Controversy: Esks will NOT win Grey Cup this year

Please explain to me how the Riders got better. By signing Marcus Crandell as their backup QB? Or by keeping basically the same team as last year together

Nope, by having there 2004 starter healthy, and by having their top receiver and top running back signed long term and in Regina for a full training camp (which hasnt happened in the past 5 years)

[lloyd]

Re: Controversy: Esks will NOT win Grey Cup this year

Soudog, that was a great post, not saying I agree as Im fairly sure the Esks will be in the playoffs, but its nice to see someone give some legit reasons as to why they think the way they do.

[lloyd]

Re: Controversy: Esks will NOT win Grey Cup this year

No i think RD is the OC figure head danny is still running the show.

Even that might be seen as a problem by some people.
I know Id rather have the HC concetrating on Head coaching and an OC concentrating on the offense.

[Diesel]

Re: Controversy: Esks will NOT win Grey Cup this year

I'd rather have CC looking after the offence than RDL, thank you

[eskiez]

Re: Controversy: Esks will NOT win Grey Cup this year

When it comes to RB I believe we got better because now having a more versatile pair (McClendon and Joseph)which will allow us pitches, rb screens, shovel passes to the RB. These things were not available to us with Pringle especially when Mills got hurt. I think now that our RB situation is changed it will be alot harder to coach against defensivly.