Annual 2008 Esksfans - Christmas vs. PC debate

[Esks4ever]

Re: Annual 2008 Esksfans - Christmas vs. PC debate

i thought this thread was going to be about getting a computer for christmas

[Deathsdoorstep]

Re: Apparently Cystic Fibrosis Isn't "Inclusive" Enough for Carleton U SA

So....it's the GREED OF CAPITALISM that causes this?

DDS must be having one hell of an internal struggle over his desire to maintain both Christmas AND the primary tenants of Capitalism?

No conflict in my books, mate.

[Muley69]

Re: Apparently Cystic Fibrosis Isn't "Inclusive" Enough for Carleton U SA

No conflict in my books, mate.

As I understand it, you're choked because retailers don't say "Merry Christmas".

Retailers don't say "Merry Christmas" because they want to be inclusive to make as much money as they can. But this should ALSO be okay with you as a supporter of capitalism.



Those are clearly at odds with each other based on a lot of what you've posted in the past.

[Deathsdoorstep]

Re: Apparently Cystic Fibrosis Isn't "Inclusive" Enough for Carleton U SA

As I understand it, you're choked because retailers don't say "Merry Christmas".

Retailers don't say "Merry Christmas" because they want to be inclusive to make as much money as they can. But this should ALSO be okay with you as a supporter of capitalism.



Those are clearly at odds with each other based on a lot of what you've posted in the past.

Like I said, during "The Holidays" people buy gifts that are opened at "Christmas".

Their accountants aren't telling them to drop the word "Christmas". Their lawyers are.

[Traxy]

Re: Annual 2008 Esksfans - Christmas vs. PC debate

I love Christmas as much as anyone, but it is an invented holiday. Jesus, if he ever actually existed, was born sometime in mid February according to historians. Christians invented Christmas to soften the blow for Pagans converting to Christianity..."see, you can still have your Solstice feast and decorate your tree, we'll just call it something different."

Oh, and the end of a Charlie Brown Christmas, when Linus crams religion down everyone's throats, clearly sucks. I skip that bit every year

[Opus]

Re: Annual 2008 Esksfans - Christmas vs. PC debate

I find it sad, when people's ego and lack of faith in something they cannot physically see or touch makes them put up barriers against a message meant to inspire goodwill to our fellow man.

[Beerfish]

Re: Annual 2008 Esksfans - Christmas vs. PC debate

I am a left winger, at work they no longer have a Christmas party they have a 'festive celebration' (even though they have a damn Christmas tree at the thing.) I don't go to the thing because of this.

You can take some (very few aspects) of right wing and left wing ideologies and be pretty well assured that you can make assumptions about how people feel about topics. Unfortunatley people extend this line of thinking to every topic under the sun thus stifling good discussion and dissent on certain issues.

It's a common tactic to make sure people will support things that if given the chance for independant thought they would never support. It hurts free thinking, pity that.

[Beerfish]

Re: Annual 2008 Esksfans - Christmas vs. PC debate

I love Christmas as much as anyone, but it is an invented holiday. Jesus, if he ever actually existed, was born sometime in mid February according to historians. Christians invented Christmas to soften the blow for Pagans converting to Christianity..."see, you can still have your Solstice feast and decorate your tree, we'll just call it something different."

Oh, and the end of a Charlie Brown Christmas, when Linus crams religion down everyone's throats, clearly sucks. I skip that bit every year

There is nothing wrong with this line of thought if that is how you feel, what I perosnally object to though is for the types that because they feel that way they invent ways to become offended and negatively affect what others believe and the associated celebrations rather than just ignoring the whole process.

If there was a Muslim (or any other religon for that matter) celebration at a certain time of year and they had a celebratory party or day like Christmas and invited me to partake I'd either be honoured to participate in something they felt was important or if I truly didn't want to be involved I'd politely decline and stay out of the way. This line of thinking that people are offended because of how others celebrate things is foolish to say the least.

[Deathsdoorstep]

Re: Annual 2008 Esksfans - Christmas vs. PC debate

There is nothing wrong with this line of thought if that is how you feel, what I perosnally object to though is for the types that because they feel that way they invent ways to become offended and negatively affect what others believe and the associated celebrations rather than just ignoring the whole process.

If there was a Muslim (or any other religon for that matter) celebration at a certain time of year and they had a celebratory party or day like Christmas and invited me to partake I'd either be honoured to participate in something they felt was important or if I truly didn't want to be involved I'd politely decline and stay out of the way. This line of thinking that people are offended because of how others celebrate things is foolish to say the least.

Great post, mate.

[Deathsdoorstep]

Re: Annual 2008 Esksfans - Christmas vs. PC debate

I love Christmas as much as anyone, but it is an invented holiday. Jesus, if he ever actually existed, was born sometime in mid February according to historians. Christians invented Christmas to soften the blow for Pagans converting to Christianity..."see, you can still have your Solstice feast and decorate your tree, we'll just call it something different."

Oh, and the end of a Charlie Brown Christmas, when Linus crams religion down everyone's throats, clearly sucks. I skip that bit every year

Jesus did exist, and Linus was right. That's the best part of that special.

[Delorean]

Re: Annual 2008 Esksfans - Christmas vs. PC debate

Jesus did exist, and Linus was right. That's the best part of that special.

He also believed in the Great Pumpkin

[Deathsdoorstep]

Re: Annual 2008 Esksfans - Christmas vs. PC debate

He also believed in the Great Pumpkin

And the easter bunny. But context matters here, mate. Charlie Brown is looking for the real meaning of Christmas because all he sees is hype. Linus tells him what it's really about. Now, to me, the values that are on display in the religious version of the Christmas story are represented in many secular ways. Santa Claus is good and giving, but the traditional story is that you only get the reward if you're good. Linus is explaining to Charlie Brown in a way that doesn't hold his hand through the thought process that Christmas is about forgiveness, giving and accountability.

[Traxy]

Re: Annual 2008 Esksfans - Christmas vs. PC debate

There is nothing wrong with this line of thought if that is how you feel, what I perosnally object to though is for the types that because they feel that way they invent ways to become offended and negatively affect what others believe and the associated celebrations rather than just ignoring the whole process.

If there was a Muslim (or any other religon for that matter) celebration at a certain time of year and they had a celebratory party or day like Christmas and invited me to partake I'd either be honoured to participate in something they felt was important or if I truly didn't want to be involved I'd politely decline and stay out of the way. This line of thinking that people are offended because of how others celebrate things is foolish to say the least.

Agreed for the most part. I'm as atheist as anyone on the boards, and I don't get offended when people wish me a Merry Christmas, or if I get invited to a Christmas party. People are far too touchy these days IMO.

Now, as far as the work celebration thing goes, I'm going to play Devils Advocate for a sec. Let's say I own a company that employs 100 people. Let's say out of the 100, 50 of them are Christians, 25 profess no real religious leanings one way or the other, and 25 are a mixture of Jewish, Muslim and other faiths. If I'm having a Christmas party for the office, maybe I call it a Holiday Celebration or something generic in order to get everyone involved. Not saying I agree with it, but I get why they do it.

[Traxy]

Re: Annual 2008 Esksfans - Christmas vs. PC debate

And the easter bunny. But context matters here, mate. Charlie Brown is looking for the real meaning of Christmas because all he sees is hype. Linus tells him what it's really about. Now, to me, the values that are on display in the religious version of the Christmas story are represented in many secular ways. Santa Claus is good and giving, but the traditional story is that you only get the reward if you're good. Linus is explaining to Charlie Brown in a way that doesn't hold his hand through the thought process that Christmas is about forgiveness, giving and accountability.

It's still too preachy for me. It feels like Charles Schultz is cramming his beliefs down my throat.

[Deathsdoorstep]

Re: Annual 2008 Esksfans - Christmas vs. PC debate

Agreed for the most part. I'm as atheist as anyone on the boards, and I don't get offended when people wish me a Merry Christmas, or if I get invited to a Christmas party. People are far too touchy these days IMO.

Now, as far as the work celebration thing goes, I'm going to play Devils Advocate for a sec. Let's say I own a company that employs 100 people. Let's say out of the 100, 50 of them are Christians, 25 profess no real religious leanings one way or the other, and 25 are a mixture of Jewish, Muslim and other faiths. If I'm having a Christmas party for the office, maybe I call it a Holiday Celebration or something generic in order to get everyone involved. Not saying I agree with it, but I get why they do it.

Except that it isn't the Jews or Muslims that are complaining. Not in my experience anyway. It's the socks and sandals crowd.