This'll make DDS sit up and take notice

[glenvb]

A Northwest Airlines flight yesterday sailed right past its destination, Minneapolis, and the pilots couldn't be reached for 76 minutes. Most likely theory at this point is that the pilots FELL ASLEEP

http://www.cnn.com/2009/TRAVEL/10/23....by/index.html

And the funny thing is, this just goes to show how safe flying can be. Imagine if a bus driver or train engineer fell asleep for an hour!

[MoneyGuy]

Re: This'll make DDS sit up and take notice

Maybe the pilots were engaged in...um, acquiring their credentials for the Mile High Club. That'd be my theory.

[stamphater]

Re: This'll make DDS sit up and take notice



Maybe asking pilots to not incur one of the most ridiculous schedules in any workforce could be a good start?

Or do we need another ten accidents to prove it?

[Steve Vale]

Re: This'll make DDS sit up and take notice

Northwest pilots...recently taken over by Delta.

Maybe they were discussing which benefits continue and which will end?

[Party Time]

Re: This'll make DDS sit up and take notice

Northwest pilots...recently taken over by Delta.

Maybe they were discussing which benefits continue and which will end?

This also fits with MG's theory...they were probably welcoming some new flight attendants

[Diesel]

Re: This'll make DDS sit up and take notice

Northwest pilots...recently taken over by Delta.

That explains everything. I refuse to fly Delta again. The only thing left to go wrong on a Delta flight for me is the plane to go down....

[GreatWhiteNorth]

Re: This'll make DDS sit up and take notice

Gotta kind of wonder how other airline personnel on board weren't aware and actively seeking an explanation when the flight was not starting its descent on time. Everything is so scheduled out, that after being 10-15 minutes late in starting the descent, you'd figure they'd be on the horn to the cockpit, then pounding on the door.

[Diesel]

Re: This'll make DDS sit up and take notice

[Deathsdoorstep]

Re: This'll make DDS sit up and take notice

I'll never believe that flying is safe....but there's no faster way to get to Mexico in January.

[Nanookster]

Re: This'll make DDS sit up and take notice

It is safe, far safer than driving. Can you fall asleep at the wheel for 200 miles?

Good old autopilot kept everyone safe and the pilots were well rested for the landing.

I'd rather fly than do anything else.

[Nanookster]

Re: This'll make DDS sit up and take notice

Where I really lose respect for these guys is their defence. I instructed Flight Safety for 6 years and I really don't like what I am hearing from these guys.

They say they lost situational awareness as they were argueing. If this is true I say fire them both. But I don't think it is true, they likely fell alseep. There are more ways to contact an aircraft that through simple radio calls. There are other methods to put off alarms inside of aircraft these days.

One of the aspects of Flight Safety is you are open and truthful and for being so there are no penalties unless you are grossly negligent. If they fell asleep due to scheduling, then that has to come out and that link has to be broken. If it isn't fixed other accidents/incidents will occur.

But they lied and therefore they broke the system of trust.

[Steve Vale]

Re: This'll make DDS sit up and take notice

I flew with Northwest/Delta on Thanksgiving to Baltimore via Detroit partially with NW points. This is the first time I flew with Northwest since the takeover went into effect with the name change. (I flew with them last October and in February but they were still flying exclusively under the NW marque.)

Two things on this trip happened that never had happened to me before:

1) We had to sit waiting for 10-15 minutes since the plane had been fuelled with too much fuel for taxiing.

2) On another flight we had to sit waiting 5 minutes since there were differences with the passenger manifest versus information at their ground operations. It led me to wonder why the doors were armed and closed and the plane started to roll down the taxiway - shouldn't it have held at the gate until this was resolved?

Now it may have just been statistics that I finally experienced this - but is it more than coincidence that they both happened on a Delta flight? It didn't give me great confidence and I'm hesitant to fly them again.

[Steve Vale]

Re: This'll make DDS sit up and take notice

Where I really lose respect for these guys is their defence. I instructed Flight Safety for 6 years and I really don't like what I am hearing from these guys.

They say they lost situational awareness as they were argueing. If this is true I say fire them both. But I don't think it is true, they likely fell alseep. There are more ways to contact an aircraft that through simple radio calls. There are other methods to put off alarms inside of aircraft these days.

One of the aspects of Flight Safety is you are open and truthful and for being so there are no penalties unless you are grossly negligent. If they fell asleep due to scheduling, then that has to come out and that link has to be broken. If it isn't fixed other accidents/incidents will occur.

But they lied and therefore they broke the system of trust.

QFT

Do you think the Gimli Glider crew really wanted to say that they had run out of gas 730 nautical miles short of their destination?

Pilots "arguing"???...you're right it just doesn't compute.

Assuming that their prepping up for landing starts approx. 200 km out plus they overshot the airport by 240 km, with an A320 cruising speed of approx 840 km/h that would mean that they were not paying attention for approximately 30 minutes! Everyone comfortable with that?

Seriously, how do you miss the lights of Minneapolis-St. Paul at 9pm in October? It's a metro population centre of 3 million people.

C'mon pilots - fess up...something else was happening.

[Beerfish]

Re: This'll make DDS sit up and take notice

I hear they were arguing about whether DM should be fired or if RR should be benched. We all know how tough those arguments can be.

[Nanookster]

Re: This'll make DDS sit up and take notice

I flew with Northwest/Delta on Thanksgiving to Baltimore via Detroit partially with NW points. This is the first time I flew with Northwest since the takeover went into effect with the name change. (I flew with them last October and in February but they were still flying exclusively under the NW marque.)

Two things on this trip happened that never had happened to me before:

1) We had to sit waiting for 10-15 minutes since the plane had been fuelled with too much fuel for taxiing.

2) On another flight we had to sit waiting 5 minutes since there were differences with the passenger manifest versus information at their ground operations. It led me to wonder why the doors were armed and closed and the plane started to roll down the taxiway - shouldn't it have held at the gate until this was resolved?

Now it may have just been statistics that I finally experienced this - but is it more than coincidence that they both happened on a Delta flight? It didn't give me great confidence and I'm hesitant to fly them again.

I'd say this was good.

1) I doubt it was too much fuel to taxi. It was too much fuel due to extra cargo or passengers that they took on. It could also be a weight and balance issue. A fuel load is distributed according to expected aircraft weight. Fuel tanks are in different locations on aircraft.

2) What likely occurred here was checked in passengers missed the flight and the backage handlers were pulling their bags.