Esks / Draft

[Diesel]

http://www.edmontonsun.com/Sports/Fo...87911-sun.html

[Oiler]

Re: Esks / Draft

DM has always undervalued the draft and especially 1st round selections which I think is a big mistake. Let's hope Hall is more astute at picking even if we don't have a 1st rounder this year.

[GreatWhiteNorth]

Re: Esks / Draft

DM has always undervalued the draft and especially 1st round selections which I think is a big mistake. Let's hope Hall is more astute at picking even if we don't have a 1st rounder this year.

That's crap.

Maciocia spent the majority of his tenure since taking over the reigns in 2005 rebuilding the team in a city that would never tolerate (and hasn't) sitting back waiting for draft picks to pan out. In some cases, his hand was forced (trading for Pre) or he gambled and lost (Kean), but it's ridiculous to suggest that a guy that a Canadian coach/GM like DM doesn't value the impact of NIs on a roster... which is exactly what's suggested by saying he undervalues the draft.

And don't think for a minute that Maciocia isn't still the main decision maker when it comes to the draft... that's his job. Hall will have input, as will the scouts and the coordinators, but it's DM that will be making the final calls.

[Hugoagogo]

Re: Esks / Draft

Danny rebuilt the Eskimos??? What would we have done without him

[Numberz]

Re: Esks / Draft

He tore it apart, so of course he had to rebuild it. Unfortunately, he destroyed a mansion and built a shed in its place.

[GreatWhiteNorth]

Re: Esks / Draft

He tore it apart, so of course he had to rebuild it. Unfortunately, he destroyed a mansion and built a shed in its place.

Look at the team he inherited when he took over. Veteran laden and talented, but oooooold.

Starting losing key guys to retirement and age almost immediately and rather than going through a typical 're-build' he tried to execute a 're-load'. Just because we've seen it done a number of times over the decades here under the Campbell regimes does not mean that's an easy, or even sometimes possible, task.

Most teams would generally take 2-3 year plans to tear down and re-build and I think last year was the first signs of payoff from that process.

[Numberz]

Re: Esks / Draft

If by 'losing key guys to retirement and old age immediately' you mean 'forced out key guys like Mobes, Brady, and Montford' then yes...

Those guys had a few years left in them, and keeping them here would have provided a smoother transition. That's why we've been able to 're-load' in the past, we've kept the pieces in place and allowed the new guys to shine. Instead, we dumped the whole workload on the new guys, didn't allow them to grow chemistry, and threw them under the bus when they couldn't live up to almost impossible odds.

The drafting has sucked as well....McCarty and Braidwood are really the only bright spots. We had a decent draft and picked up some special teamers and lesser known guys, which is alright, but I still wouldn't give a passing grade to our drafting under Maciocia.

[Swivel Hips]

Re: Esks / Draft

That's crap.

Maciocia spent the majority of his tenure since taking over the reigns in 2005 rebuilding the team in a city that would never tolerate (and hasn't) sitting back waiting for draft picks to pan out. In some cases, his hand was forced (trading for Pre) or he gambled and lost (Kean), but it's ridiculous to suggest that a guy that a Canadian coach/GM like DM doesn't value the impact of NIs on a roster... which is exactly what's suggested by saying he undervalues the draft.

And don't think for a minute that Maciocia isn't still the main decision maker when it comes to the draft... that's his job. Hall will have input, as will the scouts and the coordinators, but it's DM that will be making the final calls.

Hmm . . .

[GreatWhiteNorth]

Re: Esks / Draft

If by 'losing key guys to retirement and old age immediately' you mean 'forced out key guys like Mobes, Brady, and Montford' then yes...

Those guys had a few years left in them, and keeping them here would have provided a smoother transition. That's why we've been able to 're-load' in the past, we've kept the pieces in place and allowed the new guys to shine. Instead, we dumped the whole workload on the new guys, didn't allow them to grow chemistry, and threw them under the bus when they couldn't live up to almost impossible odds.

The drafting has sucked as well....McCarty and Braidwood are really the only bright spots. We had a decent draft and picked up some special teamers and lesser known guys, which is alright, but I still wouldn't give a passing grade to our drafting under Maciocia.

That, to me, was kind of phase two. In 2006, those guys were kept around but we lost Beaton, Morris, Lefsrud, Wiltshire, Marsh, and Jeanty off the top of my head. IMO, 2006 showed not only the loss of these impact players and veterans, but also a little bit of the age of guys like Mobes, Hervey, Brady, Mookie, etc.

As for drafting, we agree that it's sucked, but it hasn't been good for us in many years and long before DM took the reigns. Sanghera, Casseus and a long list of busts. In fact, DM inherited a draft in 2005 with only 3 picks, the first of which was in the 3rd round. It is worth mentioning that last year produced St. Pierre, Cooper and Woijt, all of whom are expected to be roster players this year, as well as Luciani, Hood and Okpro that were kept around last year. That, to date, is about the best crop we've had since 2000 when we drafted Bakker and Hudson.

In the past, the Esks had never let themselves get to the point where they needed so much change all at once. This time around, the stretch run in 2005 possibly masked some of the issues that had made us a relatively average club that got hot at the right time. Higgins didn't leave the cupboard bare, but he did leave it stocked with guys that had their expiry date coming up fast.

[Eskimo_RoB]

Re: Esks / Draft

Finally a poster that sees the whole picture. If the SMS was not put in place guys like Mobes, Hervey, Montford, etc would not have been forced to retire because no other team could afford them either.

[Hugoagogo]

Re: Esks / Draft

I'll say this, I'd rather have Danny signing and recruiting versus calling the plays. He believed in a guy like Patrick Kobongo early on; I believe his being here played a part in Ricky Ray coming back versus another year on an NFL practice roster. SMS has meant tough choices, certainly. We can't forget about that. I guess the grass is greener after making the playoffs last year...
It's also great to talk about football! Can't wait.

[Numberz]

Re: Esks / Draft

Finally a poster that sees the whole picture. If the SMS was not put in place guys like Mobes, Hervey, Montford, etc would not have been forced to retire because no other team could afford them either.

...and yet we had the money to go after Morgan and Durden and such....not to mention that we had an opportunity to sign them before the Grey Cup and save money for future years. We also had the money to bring Montford and Brady back after we cut them. It's just bad planning IMO. Bad management, too much turnover at one point, no long term vision. We were so good for so long because we kept things in place, and build for our successors. Higgins didn't leave a good enough team in place for Maciocia, and Maciocia didn't do anything to salvage what was given him, nor build for his successor. As a result, we've had a new secondary every year, new d-line every year, new RB every year, and have had to rebuild our LBs. Maciocia gave us an o-line and a QB...and thin Canadian depth.

[Eskimo_RoB]

Re: Esks / Draft

Durden was part of a trade, and Morgan was signed to strengthen a weak secondary. Montford was released to save money and let the younger guys develope and compete for starting jobs. Montford was then later brought back to be a mentor which didnt pan out because he was making the same mistakes the rookies were. Brady was brought back because of injuries in the secondary and was given a chance to pick up his game.

[Swivel Hips]

Re: Esks / Draft

...and yet we had the money to go after Morgan and Durden and such....not to mention that we had an opportunity to sign them before the Grey Cup and save money for future years. We also had the money to bring Montford and Brady back after we cut them. It's just bad planning IMO. Bad management, too much turnover at one point, no long term vision. We were so good for so long because we kept things in place, and build for our successors. Higgins didn't leave a good enough team in place for Maciocia, and Maciocia didn't do anything to salvage what was given him, nor build for his successor. As a result, we've had a new secondary every year, new d-line every year, new RB every year, and have had to rebuild our LBs. Maciocia gave us an o-line and a QB...and thin Canadian depth.

I agree.

Numberz is right. There was no planning during the Maciocia era. The prime example was "Kickergate" last year. How long had they known Sean Fleming was retiring? At least a year. We draft Warren Kean with the number two pick overall and keep him around all that year - but then we find out he can't punt, or kick off.

So, when Fleming finally retires, they trade for Rob Pikula, but he can earn more off the football field, so he retires. Then they trade a draft pick to B.C. for Duncan O'Mahony. Then they sign Hayden Espstein, again, but cut him when they get O'Mahony. Then Noel Prefontaine becomes available, so they trade a couple of draft picks for him and cut O'Mahony. They also keep Schiavone around all year.

The running backs, defensive line, defensive secondary and linebackers were all revolving doors during the Maciocia era. We cut players and brought them back - Donny Brady, Joe Montford, A. J. Harris and Goldie to name just four.

We signed big money free agent busts - Reggie Durden, Omarr Morgan, Stanford Samuels and Jordan Younger. We brought in old retired veterans to try to bolster our Canadian depth - Rob Hitchcock and Mike Mauer to name just two.

There has been no long-term vision and planning in this organization for at least the last five years.

[Eskimo_RoB]

Re: Esks / Draft

nor build for his successor

He did a hell of alot more building than Higgins ever did. I guess guys like McCarty, Stamps, Peterson, Armstrong, Mann, and the recent signings of 2 starters Lumsden, Lloyd, and 1 more possible starter Koch are all chop liver.