4th year in 4th Place.

[Tucker83]

Re: 4th year in 4th Place.

Huntley has been impressive as well.

If Ray is hypothetically traded to TO, I say we solidify our Canadian talent. Get TO's first overall pick this year, and the 8th overall pick(Hamilton forfeited their pick this season by signing Carlson- TO has the 1st pick of the 2nd round, IIRC), maybe try get some more picks down the road in future drafts. A guy like Adriano Belli would be great as well.

When you take a good long look at our football team this season, when our two starting DT's are in(Romero, Taylor) they have both been outstanding.

DT isn't the first area I look. DE is however.

[PDO]

Re: 4th year in 4th Place.

When you take a good long look at our football team this season, when our two starting DT's are in(Romero, Taylor) they have both been outstanding.

DT isn't the first area I look. DE is however.

DE for sure.

But any upgrade on this team is an upgrade. Clearly we have more problems than we think we have...

[esks123]

Re: 4th year in 4th Place.

DE for sure.

But any upgrade on this team is an upgrade. Clearly we have more problems than we think we have...

Agreed. But at the same time, I don't think it would be a wise move to go turnover 40% of our roster again this off-season like it seems we do every year. We have a lot of talent on this team, but there are definitely a number of areas we can improve.

[newton]

Re: 4th year in 4th Place.

When Calgary struggled, especially in 2007 the fans were calling for Burris's head all the time, and I think about the same of calls for Ray now. Fact is if you hit, hurry and harass any QB in the CFL he will be ineffective. I think the problem with RR is right in front of him - Calgary was giving him a steady dose of pressure ...doesn't matter if they call 10 deep balls, with no protection he wont have time to wait for that to develop.

I am sure after being abused qtr after qtr Ray starts to miss throws and make mistakes himself, he is not perfect ...but he is not what ails the Esks IMO....if you were beginning a CFL franchise from scratch he is one of the 2 QB's I would build the team around.

I thought the stamps D did a good job of getting to Ray tonight - to me that was the difference.

[PDO]

Re: 4th year in 4th Place.

When Calgary struggled, especially in 2007 the fans were calling for Burris's head all the time, and I think about the same of calls for Ray now. Fact is if you hit, hurry and harass any QB in the CFL he will be ineffective. I think the problem with RR is right in front of him - Calgary was giving him a steady dose of pressure ...doesn't matter if they call 10 deep balls, with no protection he wont have time to wait for that to develop.

I am sure after being abused qtr after qtr Ray starts to miss throws and make mistakes himself, he is not perfect ...but he is not what ails the Esks IMO....if you were beginning a CFL franchise from scratch he is one of the 2 QB's I would build the team around.

I thought the stamps D did a good job of getting to Ray tonight - to me that was the difference.

Completely open ended question:

Are you insinuating the problem lies within:

A) The offensive line
B) Whitlock/CMC's blocking ability?

Honest question. If it was as easy as having good blitz packages and a great defensive line then the Ravens would win the Superbowl every year...

[newton]

Re: 4th year in 4th Place.

I think Whitlock is a suspect blocker on passing downs for sure, his error caused a big hit on Ricky Ray in the 2nd Qtr(ish) of the game. I dont know what the answer is though ...do you pull him out for passing downs, wouldn't that give the play away a bit? He is effective running the ball - Esks need that. Maybe the Esks braintrusts put all their hopes on Lumsden.

I don't know what to make of the Oline in Edmonton except to say its inconsistent....but it seems like they all take a turn - at any rate, even if ghosts of Tucker, Sandusky and Terry Vaughn all took the field - Ricky Ray wouldn't have time to get them the ball IMO


I think that's why you see a steady diet of 4 yard passes.

I can give another recentish example. In 2001 the Bombers had the high octane offense and Khari Jones was league MOP ...in 2002 a revamped mostly rookie Oline and Khari looked very ordinary very quickly....but the guy had to release the ball in 1.5 seconds, after awhile the offense gets pretty predictable and defensible.

and I think the late season edition of the 2007 Stampeders Oline looked the same way. Early in RR's career in Edmonton he had the fortune of playing in front of a very veteran and talented line, under that he looked unstoppable. I dont think the last 4 years you could say that about the Esks.

/my 2 cents

[Esks1975]

Re: 4th year in 4th Place.

I agree with Newton about the blocking from Arkee. They need to play Mat Bert way more than they do now. He could provide the blocking that Arkee really doesn't have the size to do.

[cmbuk]

Re: 4th year in 4th Place.

3 words..

NOT GOOD ENOUGH.......

[Esks4ever]

Re: 4th year in 4th Place.

I agree with Newton about the Oline...Granted they have their moments but over all they are a below average - average line. Very good example in Winnipeg's Offense with Jones one year then crap the next...

With Ray, the Oline needs to be on their game. Ray is not a quick release like A/C but when he has the confidence in the Oline he can get the ball out quick. When the Oline constantly folds over and Ray loses confidence in them to hold long enough for something to develop -he'll check down to his safety throws. That's why we keep seeing those throws.

What about Rays bad throws to the outs all the time? I thought about it, I think Ray has lost all confidence in the Oline and in his head he hears footsteps every play. Which affects his throws be it high, low, off target.. He thinks he has no more time because in his head he is hearing footsteps / feeling heat even though he actually has more time that he thinks - causing the throws to be off the mark.

He's playing like a scared rookie QB, and like I said I think it stems from him not trusting his Oline.

That Sask game where the first half he was on fire, the Oline was protecting big time. Half time comes, and their D makes adjustments and begins to get pressure on Ray - and Ray begins to falter. I also dont feel this is a "this year only" thing, I truly believe this has been going on for a while - after all Ray has gotten hit a ****load over the years, and I'd start to not trust my Oline and I'd begin to hear phantom footsteps...

I just find it hard to believe that Ray has all of a suddenly lost his touch. It just doesn't happen ( losing his touch like turning off a switch ) and they always do say "games are won and lost in the trenches" and right now our fighters in the trenches (both O and D ) are not getting the job done

[stamphater]

Re: 4th year in 4th Place.

Pretty sure can't trade as the deadline has passed.

I think we should look at trying to incorporate Z into our offense occasionally. He would complement Ray. I know Ray is against it like he was when it was him and Bart Hendricks back in 2003 but Ray hasn't played well enough to deserve it.

[EsksTMac]

Re: 4th year in 4th Place.

I just think our protection schemes as a whole have gone to hell ever since the change to Strasser.

I think we gave up the least amount of sacks in the league prior to Labour Day, and I'm sure that stat has changed now. It seems Ricky's spent more time on his back the second half of the season and you can't have that when all 12 guys on the field are adjusting to a totally new offence.

Play calling in those first two drives in the red zone were just awful as well. A draw on second and goal from the 9 yard line? You're asking WAY too much of Whitlock.

Simplify this offence down and get the ball to your playmakers. That's how you win games.

[EsksTMac]

Re: 4th year in 4th Place.

And for all of you guys b***hing about losses.. if we trade Ricky Ray, what do you think is going to happen?

Think about that for a second.

[Rayminator]

Re: 4th year in 4th Place.

And for all of you guys b***hing about losses.. if we trade Ricky Ray, what do you think is going to happen?

Think about that for a second.

I agree. There are many less extreme measures we need to try with RR before trading him. No point in going from 200-0 in the blink of an eye.

That'll wreck the transmission.

[stamphater]

Re: 4th year in 4th Place.

I just think our protection schemes as a whole have gone to hell ever since the change to Strasser.

I think we gave up the least amount of sacks in the league prior to Labour Day, and I'm sure that stat has changed now. It seems Ricky's spent more time on his back the second half of the season and you can't have that when all 12 guys on the field are adjusting to a totally new offence.

Play calling in those first two drives in the red zone were just awful as well. A draw on second and goal from the 9 yard line? You're asking WAY too much of Whitlock.

Simplify this offence down and get the ball to your playmakers. That's how you win games.

Really? Other than last week against TO; I think our Oline has been decent and certainly nowhere near as bad as others have made it out to be. I thought it was fine last night and Ricky was holding onto the ball too long...again.

[Rayminator]

Re: 4th year in 4th Place.

Really? Other than last week against TO; I think our Oline has been decent and certainly nowhere near as bad as others have made it out to be. I thought it was fine last night and Ricky was holding onto the ball too long...again.

I'd say both Ricky and the OL had their moments of crap last night.