One snap

[Diesel]

Re: One snap

the system we want to run.

Which is being stewarded by a rookie OC. Again it doesn't make sense to have all your guys cookie cutter stypes when you had a skillset at that position that you could exploit when needed.

[chirp]

Re: One snap

Maas was DONE he has nothing left, it's time to bring in some young guys to take over when Rays ready to pass the torch. Every team does this, while obviously there's alot of rooks that struggle there's always some that can come in and play. I'm not a big Ray fan anymore and I wanted to see more Z last year but the guy did struggle and the staff wants younger players obviously that fit the system we want to run.

The only team to play two "rookies" was the Blue Bombers and witnessing how that turned out no thank you. The other teams had a vet of a few years to fall back on. It should be either Ray, Nichols*, Maas and player x on the PR or Ray, Z, Nichols* and player x on PR.

*If he wins a job.

[Macavity]

Re: One snap

Couple points.

1) @Chirp, our rookies were played because of multiple injuries, not just the starter going down.

2) Most teams do not have proven back-ups. Holding a clipboard for 3 years does not mean you have talent. Dinwiddie had as much experience and had proved as much as Zabransky has. We have better back-ups now then he ever was. I would say the only back-up that fully has my trust in the league right now is McPherson.

As to 'blowing up the team', one of the many complaints about DM was his overly "I like this guy" reasoning. When he brought Maas back there was a lot of 'man love' talk. I don't know (and neither does anyone else) but maybe getting the 'just happy to be here' attitude out of the locker-room is a necessary part of moving forward even if some of those pieces were useful in games.

NOTE: Not suggesting Kamau is one of those, his production was far beyond 'decent' or 'helpful'. No idea on the potential cap issues, but....

[adb]

Re: One snap

Taking a position of strength and turning it into an immediate position of weakness simply isn't smart asset management. Ray's shown he is starting to be prone to being dinged up with a little more regularity in the past few seasons. Some will point to areas of the Oline, and that is not without merrit. People should also look at what RR has not done to improve his own game in the past several years, that are now catching up with him at this stage of his career.

1.His play action motion continues to be the worst in the league among starting QB's and he's getting more backside kill shots because of it.

2.His release motion has not changed, and his want to hold onto the ball until the last moment magnifies #1

3.He continues to fall into lazy habits about not checking his safety off.

This will be RR's 6th OC now, and each offseason we hear from the coaching staff about how we have to get more aggressive, take shots downfield, open up the field, yadda yadda yadda. Yet by the time mid season rolls around they find themselves back where they have been since 06.

Ray has the capabilities to make things happen but what he has NOT shown with any consistency over the past few years is a willingness to evolve his game to counteract the slow erosion of his abilities that happen to any player over time. Again I point to AC as a prime example of how a vet QB has continued to evolve his game to remain the premier QB in this league. Guys like Danny Mac did so to extend their careers as well and there are other examples. My concern is there are so many who still romanticize about what RR did for a 4 year stretch 6 years ago, and each time they see flashes of that, they still believe that he's still the same guy.

Ray always played at his best when he was in a fight to earn or secure his job. When he's been handed the reigns on a silver platter we've all seen the bad habits creep into his game. If we are all so content to point out flaws in players we have let go, then we should have no problem honestly assessing the guy who gets the ball every snap on offence too.

Would it be a fair comment to make that he was also at his best when he had a star RB in his backfield who was heavily utilized. I haven't checked the numbers to see if they would back this hypothesis it's just a feeling I have from what I can remember.

[Diesel]

Re: One snap

Every QB plays better when he has an effective ground game

[chirp]

Re: One snap

Couple points.

1) @Chirp, our rookies were played because of multiple injuries, not just the starter going down.

My point exactly. Ray goes down and we have................... would rather not have to rely on two unproven guys. There was more than one snap that brought those guys into the starting role.

2) Most teams do not have proven back-ups. Holding a clipboard for 3 years does not mean you have talent. Dinwiddie had as much experience and had proved as much as Zabransky has. We have better back-ups now then he ever was. I would say the only back-up that fully has my trust in the league right now is McPherson.

More to the game then skill. With one vet backup you have a second coach. Also chemistry with the line and running backs from playing before. So if we eliminate the chemistry aspect there is a change in the pace of the CFL game that differs than what these guys are used to. If Ray goes down and without seeing Nichols play in the CFL I would take Tate, Porter, Jyles, Dinwiddle over him. Not as long term but a band-aid. I also don't think Ray is outspoken enough to be an effective teacher. Ray is the exception to the rule as he had success right away. In most leagues rookie QBs forced to play early do not fair as well as ones who sit behind a vet for a least a season.


As to 'blowing up the team', one of the many complaints about DM was his overly "I like this guy" reasoning. When he brought Maas back there was a lot of 'man love' talk. I don't know (and neither does anyone else) but maybe getting the 'just happy to be here' attitude out of the locker-room is a necessary part of moving forward even if some of those pieces were useful in games.

NOTE: Not suggesting Kamau is one of those, his production was far beyond 'decent' or 'helpful'. No idea on the potential cap issues, but....

[cmbuk]

Re: One snap

Taking a position of strength and turning it into an immediate position of weakness simply isn't smart asset management. Ray's shown he is starting to be prone to being dinged up with a little more regularity in the past few seasons. Some will point to areas of the Oline, and that is not without merrit. People should also look at what RR has not done to improve his own game in the past several years, that are now catching up with him at this stage of his career.

1.His play action motion continues to be the worst in the league among starting QB's and he's getting more backside kill shots because of it.

2.His release motion has not changed, and his want to hold onto the ball until the last moment magnifies #1

3.He continues to fall into lazy habits about not checking his safety off.

This will be RR's 6th OC now, and each offseason we hear from the coaching staff about how we have to get more aggressive, take shots downfield, open up the field, yadda yadda yadda. Yet by the time mid season rolls around they find themselves back where they have been since 06.

Ray has the capabilities to make things happen but what he has NOT shown with any consistency over the past few years is a willingness to evolve his game to counteract the slow erosion of his abilities that happen to any player over time. Again I point to AC as a prime example of how a vet QB has continued to evolve his game to remain the premier QB in this league. Guys like Danny Mac did so to extend their careers as well and there are other examples. My concern is there are so many who still romanticize about what RR did for a 4 year stretch 6 years ago, and each time they see flashes of that, they still believe that he's still the same guy.

Ray always played at his best when he was in a fight to earn or secure his job. When he's been handed the reigns on a silver platter we've all seen the bad habits creep into his game. If we are all so content to point out flaws in players we have let go, then we should have no problem honestly assessing the guy who gets the ball every snap on offence too.

Your assesment of rr is pretty much spot on IMHO.. Great analysis diez

[Macavity]

Re: One snap

Yeah, Chirp, I don't think we actually disagree much. Z was NOT the 2nd coach type, though. In that sense, I think a newbie with an upside might be just as good a stop-gap back-up.

Though your assessment is much more thorough than mine would have been, Diesel, I've thought for a long time that the fat contract Ray was handed on his return sent the message "you've arrived" to a guy young enough to still learn and grow a lot. One of the saddest things DM did in his time was not provide real teaching for Ray to hit what SHOULD have been his peak.

[Opus]

Re: One snap

Yeah, Chirp, I don't think we actually disagree much. Z was NOT the 2nd coach type, though. In that sense, I think a newbie with an upside might be just as good a stop-gap back-up.

Though your assessment is much more thorough than mine would have been, Diesel, I've thought for a long time that the fat contract Ray was handed on his return sent the message "you've arrived" to a guy young enough to still learn and grow a lot. One of the saddest things DM did in his time was not provide real teaching for Ray to hit what SHOULD have been his peak.

The problem there was that when Ray returned, he did so as a Free Agent....and there was no shortage of teams ready to bid for his services.

We may have had the best inroads to getting him back, but there was no way we were going to get him on the cheap.

[Macavity]

Re: One snap

True enough, Opus, but there was a sense from DM that the message was always "you're the man" (post GC), no worries. But at a time when Kevin Glenn (current QB of same age) was being doubted and questioned and trained, Ray was being patted on the back constantly (or so it looked from here).

[Opus]

Re: One snap

True enough, Opus, but there was a sense from DM that the message was always "you're the man" (post GC), no worries. But at a time when Kevin Glenn (current QB of same age) was being doubted and questioned and trained, Ray was being patted on the back constantly (or so it looked from here).

Fair enough, but at that time Ray had come off of one NFL stint, and back to back Grey Cup appearances (with one victory).

He followed it up with yet another Grey Cup win where he captured the MOP for the game. His early success has likely done the greatest damage to his progression as a Qb.....

[Macavity]

Re: One snap

Yeah, I had it from a former coach that the worst thing that ever happened to Crandell was winning the Cup. Hopefully Reed can rev Ricky up somehow!

[Opus]

Re: One snap

Yeah, I had it from a former coach that the worst thing that ever happened to Crandell was winning the Cup. Hopefully Reed can rev Ricky up somehow!

I'm not much of an athlete anymore, let alone a professional one.....but I suspect the line between motivation and complacency gets blurred a bit if you've accomplished some of the highest accolades achievable very early on.

[writfiler]

Re: One snap

I see that Sask. signed Chris Leak today. He spent 2 years in Montreal as an understudy to AC and McPherson and would have gained some experience in his limited playing time there. I'm wondering if ET gave any consideration to signing him as a back-up to RR rather than going with a raw rookie?

[chirp]

Re: One snap

I see that Sask. signed Chris Leak today. He spent 2 years in Montreal as an understudy to AC and McPherson and would have gained some experience in his limited playing time there. I'm wondering if ET gave any consideration to signing him as a back-up to RR rather than going with a raw rookie?

Now he will if the Riders don't keep him after camp.