Obama Keystone Decision

[Diesel]

1 Termer just handed the election to the republicans. What a dumb decision on his part.

[griswold]

Re: Obama Keystone Decision

Yeah I can't figure this one out either. I mean considering how oil hungry that country is, it only makes sense to reduce it's heavy reliance on mid east oil. But because of a few tree huggers, they bail on the deal???

[SandManFan]

Re: Obama Keystone Decision

Oil sands has such a bad rep in North America but on an international level it is actually not so bad as far as social and environmental conditions of oil production. But of course, NIMBY!

Lose-lose for Obama. Create jobs or save the bunnies? Either way he loses support

[glenvb]

Re: Obama Keystone Decision

...and that is why the Republicans pushed it. Obama isn't saying "no" to the pipeline; he's just trying to delay the decision until after the election. Political game-playing on both sides.

[moontoscott]

Re: Obama Keystone Decision

Oil sands has such a bad rep in North America but on an international level it is actually not so bad as far as social and environmental conditions of oil production. But of course, NIMBY!

Lose-lose for Obama. Create jobs or save the bunnies? Either way he loses support

The problem is that the public wants to listen to morons like Darryl Hanah and that ditz from the show Friends when in fact they know nothing about it. Anyone who criticizes the oils sands should go visit Nigerian oil production and then they will know what an environmental disaster is.

Obama did this to sew up the environmentalist and left wing--we -hate -everybody votes and that's what he probably did. It will be a close race come November but I still expect Obama to win. The Republicans aren't exactly well loved either mind you I guess Romney is a centrist so perhaps in the end he's really another Democrat anyway. Yawn.

[Inquiring Mind]

Re: Obama Keystone Decision

Meh, domestically the president is pretty much just a figurehead, the real power is in congress... and there you have a battle between one party who can't find their ass with both hands, and the other who wouldn't know reality if it slapped them in the face (you can decide for yourself which is which). Watching that circus makes one grateful for the system we have even with it's flaws.

[Muley69]

Re: Obama Keystone Decision

Can anyone simply answer the question why Canada is trying to ship bitumen to the U.S. for upgrading rather than doing it here?

I know that weather is a big factor - the cold here makes it way more difficult to consistently / reliable upgrade bitumen...but is there anything else?

[GreatWhiteNorth]

Re: Obama Keystone Decision

Can anyone simply answer the question why Canada is trying to ship bitumen to the U.S. for upgrading rather than doing it here?

I know that weather is a big factor - the cold here makes it way more difficult to consistently / reliable upgrade bitumen...but is there anything else?

MtS is likely in a better position to answer, but my understanding is that it has to do with the variety of products that come from it through the refining process. Rather than having to separately ship each of those end products, we ship the raw materials and it is refined closer to the markets for the end products.

While I'd love to see the extra jobs from that element of it, it makes sense that there must be economic viability reasons why they aren't based near the point of extraction.

[moontoscott]

Re: Obama Keystone Decision

Can anyone simply answer the question why Canada is trying to ship bitumen to the U.S. for upgrading rather than doing it here?

I know that weather is a big factor - the cold here makes it way more difficult to consistently / reliable upgrade bitumen...but is there anything else?

The petroleum that is being shipped by Canada is already upgraded. You couldn't ship a tar sand down a pipeline. The lighter upgraded oil is what is being shipped. There may be some further refining at the end-user location.

[moontoscott]

Re: Obama Keystone Decision

Meh, domestically the president is pretty much just a figurehead, the real power is in congress... and there you have a battle between one party who can't find their ass with both hands, and the other who wouldn't know reality if it slapped them in the face (you can decide for yourself which is which). Watching that circus makes one grateful for the system we have even with it's flaws.

The Republicans/Democrats are really just one party with 2 heads. It's no different than right wing Liberals and Left-wing conservatives here in Canada.

[quake]

Re: Obama Keystone Decision

The petroleum that is being shipped by Canada is already upgraded. You couldn't ship a tar sand down a pipeline. The lighter upgraded oil is what is being shipped. There may be some further refining at the end-user location.

You can and it's being done. Short haul but there are still companies that use that technology.

[moontoscott]

Re: Obama Keystone Decision

You can and it's being done. Short haul but there are still companies that use that technology.

What are you calling a tar sand, less than 10 degrees API?

[quake]

Re: Obama Keystone Decision

What are you calling a tar sand, less than 10 degrees API?

Straight from the ground, you are right, no one can do that, yet. A mixed up unrefined slurry yes. Could it be done on a shipping to the Texas gulf scale. Prob not.

[moontoscott]

Re: Obama Keystone Decision

Straight from the ground, you are right, no one can do that, yet. A mixed up unrefined slurry yes. Could it be done on a shipping to the Texas gulf scale. Prob not.

Yes, understood. It probably doesn't have to be 30 degrees+ like WTI or something to make it down a pipeline. I can't really say what API could actually find its way down a pipeline for say, one hundred miles but I am going to guess that the slurry you refer to would have be 15 degrees plus but that's just a guess. There is probably a pipeline engineer somewhere on the site who could shore up my shaky answer.

Regardless, no matter what quality crude you are shipping, these eco-zealots are going to condemn you for anything that you do. I guess when they talk about the "oil sands disaster" they have forgotten all about the recent spill in the Gulf or the Exxon Valdez. I look forward to the day that Darryl Hanah and Louise Dreyfuss become prominent architects of energy policy in the U.S. Watch for 20 dollar a gallon gas when that happens. The hypocritical ditz from "Friends" forgot to tell the public that her billionaire father made his fortune trading oil and other commodites. Oh Well, she still has a nice rear end if that's any consolation.

[Ridersrule]

Re: Obama Keystone Decision

The petroleum that is being shipped by Canada is already upgraded. You couldn't ship a tar sand down a pipeline. The lighter upgraded oil is what is being shipped. There may be some further refining at the end-user location.

It's bituman that will be shipped down the pipeline, it will just have to be mixed with diluent or condensate to lower the viscosity, that diluent is then sent back down the pipeline and the process continues, it won't be sent there as upgraded synthetic crude. Husky energy will be doing the same thing sending bituman from the sunrise project in Fort Mac to a refinery it co-owns with BP down in Michigan.