Official WJHC Thread

[boydo]

Re: Official WJHC Thread

I still say anyone that has a pro contract shouldn't be allowed to play in these tournaments. It should be more of a showcase for those trying to get into the big leagues. Same as Olympics. Main reason I won't watch them.

[Inquiring Mind]

Re: Official WJHC Thread

Every time Canada losses a few tournaments there is always this big to-do about how we're falling behind and people panic, and a bunch of bureaucrats have a big inquisition... and before any change can actually have effect, they win a few tournaments and all is forgotten.

This is just more a case of the rest of the world catching up. It's inevitable as countries continue to improve their hockey infrastructures. It's kind of like the US in basketball... they can't just show up and beat the s*** out of everyone anymore. Several other countries can now put out teams that can give them a run for their money in any given tournament.. difference is that these once powerhouses could pump out 6-8 teams that while not as good on paper could still contend for a medal, while these other countries once you get past their "A" teams, the decline is MUCH steeper. You can't dominate forever.

[glenvb]

Re: Official WJHC Thread

I agree; there's no need to panic. Canada lost a total of one game in this tournament. Too bad it was in a playoff game, but I don't see the world ending here.

[pizmo]

Re: Official WJHC Thread

I agree; there's no need to panic. Canada lost a total of one game in this tournament. Too bad it was in a playoff game, but I don't see the world ending here.

Oh, Ya!! Go out to your backyard and look over the edge.

[PDO]

Re: Official WJHC Thread

That was as poorly coached game as I've seen in a while. I'm pretty sure RNH saw the ice for no more than 4-5 shifts in the first. You have two games left...what the hell is he doing on the bench for long periods of time. And there were no penalties at all in the first that should have kept him off the bench. Running 4 lines in a single elimination semi-final equals a fail in my eyes.

Subban had scared me and unfortunately was everything I feared in that game.

Finally, I have NEVER seen a ref call a goal after blowing his whistle. That was a new one. Must have felt damn sorry for us...

Not really sure what Subban was supposed to do - he couldn't see the first two, and then had two five bell chances go the other way. It could've been a lot worse than 4-0 in all honesty.

The coach was terrible, and it was compounded by the fact that in being a terrible coach he took players he "knew" like Ryan Murphy. That third GA was 100% on Murphy, and my god that was one of the worst defensive efforts I've ever seen. Toss in the fact that he brought in a bunch of "energy" guys and then told them to play without hitting anyone, and it was a recipe for disaster.

Canada is constantly worried about having "too many" good players. It's beyond asinine.

Hell, the Oiler's are allergic to the same thing (we can't have Yakupov or Hemsky on the THIRD LINE!!!!).

[Nanookster]

Re: Official WJHC Thread

I believe the blame for this loss starts right at the top, those who selected the team, right down to the players that played the game. While Subban shares some of the blame, it wouldn't have mattered who we had in there the way the team played. There is not a goalie on the planet that would have stopped the first 2 goals, take a look at goal #1, there is no way that a player should be that wide open in front of your goal, it even caught the player by surprise, on top of that they had a 3 on 0 down low that Subban stopped. I played goal for a lot of years and find it unfortunate that people automatically look towards the goaltender, IMO the only shot he should have had was the 4th one.

Agree on the first two goals, but we left better goaltenders in Canada.

[Nanookster]

Re: Official WJHC Thread

Anyone else tired? I watched all but one of Team Canada's games live on TSN (the USA loss I didn't watch).

I don't agree with a few of you in this thread. I don't think Canadian hockey is in trouble, I think Hockey Canada needs to look in the mirror, but I think our player development is still strong. Hockey Canada has to change the way they do things, it has become far too political and the organization is what is failing for all of us. Not the players, it is the selection and preparation that is wrong.

I enjoyed the game last night; we outshot Russia 55-25. Poor goaltending cost us this game and our medal (3 goals on 5 shots).

What I didn't like this year was:

1. We left better goaltenders at home.
2. Coaching, especially in the Team USA semi loss.
3. Murphy, how did this guy make the team? All along I thought he was going to be on the ice for the losing goal, he may have had a goal and an assist, but he was a defensive liability all game long. He was just plain scary to watch.

Last but least, I was proud of the effort last night. I didn't like those Russian players taunted Team Canada on the bench after the win. We are a proud nation and we don't stoop to the same level at the end of our wins.

[Nanookster]

Re: Official WJHC Thread

I think the reason the US did so badly last year in the U-21 tournament was because of the intense hostility and hatred they encountered playing in Edmonton. I think it rattled their whole team for the duration of the tournament.

Wrongo, they played poorly because other teams played better. Even this year they were 2-2 in round robin. Throw in a bad bounce in one of the two wins and Team USA goes home with the same type of record and result. TEam USA's biggest strength is they had the strongest goaltender in the tournament.

I am glad the format is changing next year, no more bye game and eight teams advance to the semi's.

[Nanookster]

Re: Official WJHC Thread

I still say anyone that has a pro contract shouldn't be allowed to play in these tournaments. It should be more of a showcase for those trying to get into the big leagues. Same as Olympics. Main reason I won't watch them.

It's an under twenty tournament, the only time these players can play in it ever in their lifetime is when they are under 20. Players with pro-contracts have played in this tournament for years (on both sides of the pond).

The Olympics is suppose to be for amateurs, but that has never been the truth. Look at the Red Army Teams Russia sent year after year? Allowing pro-players in the Olympics only leveled the field.

[Nanookster]

Re: Official WJHC Thread

Every time Canada losses a few tournaments there is always this big to-do about how we're falling behind and people panic, and a bunch of bureaucrats have a big inquisition... and before any change can actually have effect, they win a few tournaments and all is forgotten.

This is just more a case of the rest of the world catching up. It's inevitable as countries continue to improve their hockey infrastructures. It's kind of like the US in basketball... they can't just show up and beat the s*** out of everyone anymore. Several other countries can now put out teams that can give them a run for their money in any given tournament.. difference is that these once powerhouses could pump out 6-8 teams that while not as good on paper could still contend for a medal, while these other countries once you get past their "A" teams, the decline is MUCH steeper. You can't dominate forever.

We will dominate hockey forever! It is in our grassroots development, money isn't going to make other countries better.

We fail when politics are involved with the player selections. We still went 4-0 in the round robin this year and last year,can we ask for better. We fail in both the format and the knockout games. But the format is changing next year.

[Opus]

Re: Official WJHC Thread

I still say anyone that has a pro contract shouldn't be allowed to play in these tournaments. It should be more of a showcase for those trying to get into the big leagues. Same as Olympics. Main reason I won't watch them.

Since they mothballed the Canada Cup (and that awful World Cup), the Olympics are the only chance to get the best vs best.

[Opus]

Re: Official WJHC Thread

We will dominate hockey forever! It is in our grassroots development, money isn't going to make other countries better.

We fail when politics are involved with the player selections. We still went 4-0 in the round robin this year and last year,can we ask for better. We fail in both the format and the knockout games. But the format is changing next year.

Dominate forever?

I actually think it is that type of hubris that will continue to bring us back to just one of the contenders.
There has been far too much politics right down to that grassroots level you talked about that has lost many players already long before anyone sees their potential. I dont think any other countries have our issues at all levels of their programs that we do, simply due to the attitudes of arrogance and privilege that exist here.

[Esks1949]

Re: Official WJHC Thread

We will dominate hockey forever! It is in our grassroots development, money isn't going to make other countries better.

Canada has 3 advantages that are still far greater than the other hockey powers and they are:

1. We have the largest rabid fan base in the world. Hockey matters to Canada the same way rugby matters to New Zealand and soccer to Brazil. All you have to see is how the Americans passion for football has impacted that sport financially and otherwise.
2. We still have the best junior league in the world.
3. We still have the largest volume of competent coaches in the world.

But, i think the other countries are catching up. I'm skeptical of people saying the US has caught up because after the 1996 World Cup of Hockey we were told the US would now dominate and it didn't work out did it? But, now i have to say other countries are copying the Hockey Canada development model and it's working in other countries just like it worked in Canada.

Exhibit A: Russia just founded its own junior hockey league IN 2009! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian..._Hockey_League Before that there wasn't the type of standardised type of league play for junior players in Russia that you see in Canada. This is a big, big change.

Exhibit B: Last year Gregor had some Swedish journalist on his show who is based in Sweden and he spent 20 mins explaining how Sweden is copying the Canada model and how things have completely changed with how junior players are developed in Sweden. All of you have to see is how the Swedish juniors are coming on in the u-18 and u-20 to see that it's working. I used to always lump Sweden and Finland in the same pot, but that is simply not the case anymore. Sweden is a part of the big 4 now and they are always going to be in contention for a medal.


I think things have fundamentally changed in the hockey world and it hasn't happened overnight, but i think it's officially the big 4 now: USA, Canada, Russia, Sweden. If Canada wants to distance itself and become dominant again it Hockey Canada will have to look itself in the mirror and decide to get the best coaches and not just let someone have their "turn" and stop the petty politics.


You can sign up for information on the 2015 and 2017 WJHC's which are being held in Canada here: http://www.hockeycanada.ca/index.php.../ss_id/190000/

If Hockey Canada is smart they should bring it back to Alberta in 2017.

[Opus]

Re: Official WJHC Thread

What's the point of having the best coaches in the world, when we farm many of them out to teach other countries?

We've seen the same thing happen in sports like curling or short track speed skating, and areas we used to dominate are ones now we have to fight tooth and nail to medal in.

[Inquiring Mind]

Re: Official WJHC Thread

What's the point of having the best coaches in the world, when we farm many of them out to teach other countries?

We've seen the same thing happen in sports like curling or short track speed skating, and areas we used to dominate are ones now we have to fight tooth and nail to medal in.

Welcome to the modern world of sport. For every sport that's true for, there are five that we would be hopeless in if it wasn't for other nations doing the same... the USA in particular.

And frankly, I don't think going the isolationist route does anything for the sport. You don't have to look any further than women's hockey to see what a farce the sport becomes when there are only two countries with a chance to win... the sport would be thrown out of the Olympics if the IOC had anything to replace it with.