Could Kavis Reed be trying to turn the tables on Tillman?

[Hammer24]

Re: Could Kavis Reed be trying to turn the tables on Tillman?

I wouldn't say equal shares, who brought the idea up? How much convincing was needed? How much behind the scenes/ behind the back talk took place in order to convice those people?

I'm not connected enough to know the answers to any of those questions

In reality Barker brought the idea up. I'm sure Tillman would've, as common courtesy, told Reed about the Argos initial inquiry and any further conversations he had with Barker. I can't speculate much beyond that. I thought perhaps Tillman oversold Jyles on Reed. That makes no sense. Reed was on the coaching staffs of the Riders in 2009 and the Bombers in 2010. Jyles was also on those clubs. Reed would've probably have a better idea that Tillman about what Jyles' strengths and weaknesses were and what he could bring to the Eskimo table. In 2010 Jyles had pretty good numbers pinch-hitting for the oft-injured Buck Pierce for more than half the season completing 61% of his 318 pass attempts for 2804 yards with 19 TDs and 7 ints while chipping in 452 yards rushing. It's not out of the realm of possibilities that Reed felt very comfortable with Jyles coming the other way in the deal thus didn't need a whole lot of smooth talking to sign off on it.

[Hammer24]

Re: Could Kavis Reed be trying to turn the tables on Tillman?

We have a dysfunctional organization.

Someone is going to be the coach that works under an autocratic GM.

Reed had previous history with Tillman. He was on Ottawa's coaching staff under Tillman in 2002-03 and again with the Riders in 2009. If that's the way Tillman operates then Reed was well aware of what he was getting into.

[Looner]

Re: Could Kavis Reed be trying to turn the tables on Tillman?

Jyles is a great practice QB as well, but throw some heat in his face and force him to make adjustments on the fly and he turns into Nealon Greene in a hurry.

[Hugoagogo]

Re: Could Kavis Reed be trying to turn the tables on Tillman?

In reality Barker brought the idea up. I'm sure Tillman would've, as common courtesy, told Reed about the Argos initial inquiry and any further conversations he had with Barker.

I think you are correct, but it is a grey area. If Barker did bring it up, it was because the GM's in the league were clearly aware that Tillman had been shopping Ray. Toronto was not the first conversation about Ray, so if ET was in fact communicating with his coach, Kavis would've been aware as much as a year prior to the trade that he needed a new QB in town...

[Uncle Bobby]

Re: Could Kavis Reed be trying to turn the tables on Tillman?

It's not out of the realm of possibilities that Reed felt very comfortable with Jyles coming the other way in the deal thus didn't need a whole lot of smooth talking to sign off on it.

I think that is an insult to Kavis Reed. Name me one CFL coach that would pick Jyles over Ray.

[tigerdar]

Re: Could Kavis Reed be trying to turn the tables on Tillman?

I think that is an insult to Kavis Reed. Name me one CFL coach that would pick Jyles over Ray.

Maybe in a checkers game

[Looner]

Re: Could Kavis Reed be trying to turn the tables on Tillman?

Maybe in a checkers game

Na Jyles throws his checker 10 yards past the board on every move

[Hammer24]

Re: Could Kavis Reed be trying to turn the tables on Tillman?

I think that is an insult to Kavis Reed. Name me one CFL coach that would pick Jyles over Ray.

Of course he wouldn't take Jyles over Ray in a one for one deal which this one wasn't. I wasn't insinuating that. There were a lot of other pieces that came with Jyles. I'd think Reed is disappointed that Jyles didn't play at a consistent level but can't be disappointed with the other pieces that the trade begat. It was a Ray for Jyles plus extras that have allowed the Esks to upgrade their NI content in a way I think a lot of Eskimo fans overlook.
1) Last year Edmonton had an import kicker. They were able to replace Duval with Shaw/Dales but I think Shaw can competently handle all the chores. Regardless an import spot was opened up.
2) The 1st rounder was flipped to BC. They slid down 2 spots. BC took Westerman and flipped #20 to Hamilton. Edmonton drafted Paztor who is trying the NFL and Capiccotti who stuck with the Esks. They also picked up long snapper Ryan King at #38 who is on the 9 game list.
3) Then one has to consider what other moves may have been made possible with the cap space that was cleared. The Esks were very active in free agency this year, particularly when it comes to non-imports. Was that additional cap space instrumental in allowing them to sign the likes of NIs Rottier, Cary Koch, Carter, Oramasiouwu plus import Greg Carr who was flipped for NI O'Donnell etc? Did the cap space allow them to land all these guys? Probably not but it had to be a big factor in allowing Edmonton to be as active as they were.

When you look at the current roster this deal could be a contributing factor to acquiring 8 of Edmonton's current NIs and that's not counting Paztor.

[Esks1975]

Re: Could Kavis Reed be trying to turn the tables on Tillman?

Of course he wouldn't take Jyles over Ray in a one for one deal which this one wasn't. I wasn't insinuating that. There were a lot of other pieces that came with Jyles. I'd think Reed is disappointed that Jyles didn't play at a consistent level but can't be disappointed with the other pieces that the trade begat. It was a Ray for Jyles plus extras that have allowed the Esks to upgrade their NI content in a way I think a lot of Eskimo fans overlook.
1) Last year Edmonton had an import kicker. They were able to replace Duval with Shaw/Dales but I think Shaw can competently handle all the chores. Regardless an import spot was opened up.
2) The 1st rounder was flipped to BC. They slid down 2 spots. BC took Westerman and flipped #20 to Hamilton. Edmonton drafted Paztor who is trying the NFL and Capiccotti who stuck with the Esks. They also picked up long snapper Ryan King at #38 who is on the 9 game list.
3) Then one has to consider what other moves may have been made possible with the cap space that was cleared. The Esks were very active in free agency this year, particularly when it comes to non-imports. Was that additional cap space instrumental in allowing them to sign the likes of NIs Rottier, Cary Koch, Carter, Oramasiouwu plus import Greg Carr who was flipped for NI O'Donnell etc? Did the cap space allow them to land all these guys? Probably not but it had to be a big factor in allowing Edmonton to be as active as they were.

When you look at the current roster this deal could be a contributing factor to acquiring 8 of Edmonton's current NIs and that's not counting Paztor.

It is also a factor in the Eskimos being 7-10 right now and never actually expecting the Eskimos to win the next game they play.

The cap space benefits have been debunked and it seems most of the 'benefit's of that extra cap space went to the bloated injury list.

[Uncle Bobby]

Re: Could Kavis Reed be trying to turn the tables on Tillman?

When you look at the current roster this deal could be a contributing factor to acquiring 8 of Edmonton's current NIs and that's not counting Paztor.

Well sure, the initial deal has played a part in the wheeling and dealing and who's come and who's gone and who might come.

But Kavis never signed off on the Ray trade because he foresaw all of that happening. You said Reed was comfortable with the trade. From the article I posted earlier, it appears that he wasn't. I guess the man himself could say differently.

[tigerdar]

Re: Could Kavis Reed be trying to turn the tables on Tillman?

Well sure, the initial deal has played a part in the wheeling and dealing and who's come and who's gone and who might come.

But Kavis never signed off on the Ray trade because he foresaw all of that happening. You said Reed was comfortable with the trade. From the article I posted earlier, it appears that he wasn't. I guess the man himself could say differently.

I'm sure he wasn't could you imagine sitting in your office and pervy says great year last year Kavis 11-7 home playoff game you got this team rolling on the right track....oh by the way I traded Ray away today but don't worry I got you Jyles and a kicker in return oh and an extra draft pick that will probably be in the NFL but don't worry Kavis now we have all the cap room in the world to sign world beaters like Greg Carr, Yamon Figurs, 17 other kickers and a host of other players that will never see the field so that should make up for a huge deficiency at the most important position...and don't worry if Jyles fails Kerry is going to stick around another year as long as he gets his afternoon tea and nap and we let him watch his soaps in the afternoon.

[tigerdar]

Re: Could Kavis Reed be trying to turn the tables on Tillman?

Of course he wouldn't take Jyles over Ray in a one for one deal which this one wasn't. I wasn't insinuating that. There were a lot of other pieces that came with Jyles. I'd think Reed is disappointed that Jyles didn't play at a consistent level but can't be disappointed with the other pieces that the trade begat. It was a Ray for Jyles plus extras that have allowed the Esks to upgrade their NI content in a way I think a lot of Eskimo fans overlook.
1) Last year Edmonton had an import kicker. They were able to replace Duval with Shaw/Dales but I think Shaw can competently handle all the chores. Regardless an import spot was opened up.
2) The 1st rounder was flipped to BC. They slid down 2 spots. BC took Westerman and flipped #20 to Hamilton. Edmonton drafted Paztor who is trying the NFL and Capiccotti who stuck with the Esks. They also picked up long snapper Ryan King at #38 who is on the 9 game list.
3) Then one has to consider what other moves may have been made possible with the cap space that was cleared. The Esks were very active in free agency this year, particularly when it comes to non-imports. Was that additional cap space instrumental in allowing them to sign the likes of NIs Rottier, Cary Koch, Carter, Oramasiouwu plus import Greg Carr who was flipped for NI O'Donnell etc? Did the cap space allow them to land all these guys? Probably not but it had to be a big factor in allowing Edmonton to be as active as they were.

When you look at the current roster this deal could be a contributing factor to acquiring 8 of Edmonton's current NIs and that's not counting Paztor.

Big deal? Who on that list makes you want to run out and buy their jersey and join their fan club? Rottier is average, Koch makes some nice catches but you can't design an offence around him, Carter we don't see much of, Capicotti is back up depth at best, Ryan king is average Oramasiouwu is a really good player but we have about 8 good players on the d line, Greg Carr was a joke and O'Donnell is a lumbering pylon that would have trouble blocking someone with a walker oh and we have a head case of a kicker that can't make a pressure kick to save his life.

[boydo]

Re: Could Kavis Reed be trying to turn the tables on Tillman?

The two field goals that everyone freaks out and says Shaw sucks...one was against a strong crosswind from quite a ways out and the other hit the goalpost. I can guarantee that every other kicker in the leage has hit a post or missed a field goal including Fleming, McCallum et al... Other than those two times, when has he been a "head case"?

[tigerdar]

Re: Could Kavis Reed be trying to turn the tables on Tillman?

Other than those two times he hasn't had any pressure kicks or game winning kicks so until he hits one I'll say he chokes under pressure

[Opus]

Re: Could Kavis Reed be trying to turn the tables on Tillman?

I seem to recall him missing a game winning field goal at Commonwealth for the Argos the year previous as well.....

Young guy, might not do well under pressure. I agree "head case" might be a bit harsh.