2023-2024 off-season

[BeaverSports]

I agree, Brock left this team roster wise and culture wise in the toilet. But IMO, I don't think Jones so far has done a very good job talent wise.

I never really thought Brock's teams were that bad roster-wise, but the culture was abysmal and his coaching choice contributed to that (albeit we'll never know if the Milanovich hire would have been different). I feel like there were some defensive pieces Jones jettisoned that could have helped them not be as bad in Year 1.

I would concur that the early trading of Trevor Harris really didn't add confidence, even if Cornelius showed the odd flash of potential. The Arbuckle move came too late and tied the organization's hands somewhat. If Jones could have landed Masoli or if they bought into the VA trade many speculated about that season, maybe that would have helped.

While I think Geroy Simon is always going to have an elevated appreciation of WR — which is own past likely contributed to — many in the CFL at that time were enamoured by what B.C. did to rebuild on the fly by surrounding Rourke with a quality receiving corps. It turns out he was a better QB thank most imagined, but having more weapons can make guys look better.

When they released Dunbar, I thought it was an admission that salary would have to be spread out more equitably but the trade for Gittens Jr. almost flew in the face of that. If the receivers are healthy this year and if MBT can get the ball out, we might have a better idea if it was worth the investment.

[Sectionq]

I never really thought Brock's teams were that bad roster-wise, but the culture was abysmal and his coaching choice contributed to that (albeit we'll never know if the Milanovich hire would have been different). I feel like there were some defensive pieces Jones jettisoned that could have helped them not be as bad in Year 1.

I would concur that the early trading of Trevor Harris really didn't add confidence, even if Cornelius showed the odd flash of potential. The Arbuckle move came too late and tied the organization's hands somewhat. If Jones could have landed Masoli or if they bought into the VA trade many speculated about that season, maybe that would have helped.

While I think Geroy Simon is always going to have an elevated appreciation of WR — which is own past likely contributed to — many in the CFL at that time were enamoured by what B.C. did to rebuild on the fly by surrounding Rourke with a quality receiving corps. It turns out he was a better QB thank most imagined, but having more weapons can make guys look better.

When they released Dunbar, I thought it was an admission that salary would have to be spread out more equitably but the trade for Gittens Jr. almost flew in the face of that. If the receivers are healthy this year and if MBT can get the ball out, we might have a better idea if it was worth the investment.

I know culture is important but at the same time, culture only goes so far if you don't have enough talent. There was rumors the culture under Brock wasn't very good but their team also sucked talent wise. How much does the "culture" improve if your team is better on the field? I don't have the answer but IMO, winning helps some with your culture. If you are a super competitive guy, and you want to win, but you know your team is lousy and you expect to lose every game, it would be pretty hard to be super positive all the time. To be honest, I am the type that if you are a losing team over and over again and you have a bunch of guys all cheery and goofing around, I start to question your commitment to winning and wonder about if you have a locker room culture that is just happy to be there or really wants to win. Players don't have to be complete A-holes but you shouldn't be happy to get your ass kicked game after game.

Talent wise during the Brock years, I felt their Oline was lousy, special teams were brutal and the defense wasn't great. I don't think a better culture fixes the Oline getting burnt over and over and the QB getting drilled.

[Sectionq]

Oh I agree. I believe they thought that Corny would progress and giving him the best chance for success was the way to do that. They were clearly wrong in that assumption as our record last year showed. I think the biggest injustice Brock left us with is a bare QB cupboard. We've been scrambling to find someone since Jones's arrival. Like I said before, all of their excuses are gone (not that they've been using any) and the 2024 Elks are 100% Jones/Simons team but their backs are against the wall.

The thing that has surprised and disappointed me is how crappy our Defence has been.

I agree, I thought the defense would be better under Jones and it's been lousy. But in saying that, and this is going to come off snarky towards Jones, but I think part of it is, he's been IMO trying to be the "I am the smartest guy in the room" guy again. We had the Duron Carter experiment. He was out of football for a bit, he gets brought back and he tried to convert him to a DB. I don't know what they paid him but probably way too much and they would have been better off using his money to pay an actual DB, maybe 2. They also tried to convert another WR in Leonard (I think that was the name). Jones like big, athletic DB's Great. Those 2 were receivers probably all in highschool, in college and their pro careers for a reason. So trying to change them up here was stupid in my opinion and I think cost them games plus cost them developing guys who maybe last year would have been farther along and maybe this year as well. I think he's rolling the dice again this year with the Dline. He subtracted a lot of sacks, pressures and tackles with getting rid/trading Ceresna and Lennard with no clear replacement. Maybe it works out but whoever takes their spots, that's a hell of a lot of production they need replaced and I think that's asking a lot.

I am not sure if Corny ever had the ability to be a starter but like I said, I think not investing on the Oline but instead spent big on receivers was a big mistake. Usually young QB's struggle with reading defenses quickly, lots of American QB's coming up struggle with the extra guy, lots need work on their footwork. IMO the best way to give a young QB the best chance to improve in those areas is giving him extra TIME. When they don't get time because there is pressure, they get panicking and make mistakes. I am not sure if it would have made a difference, but I do wonder if the Elks had a better Oline that could establish a run game and give Corny more time, could he have been better? For his first year and last year, there was usually a guy in his face most snaps pretty quickly.

Even this year, I am concerned about the Oline even with MBT. I think MBT is a way better QB than Corny and better than Ford. I think he is calmer, reads defenses better and is more accurate but when the Elks made the change to Ford last year and the offense had a tiny bit of success, IMO a lot of it was due to Ford just being so athletic and so fast. He was able to get a lot of yards with his legs, so the linebackers gave him extra space and there was many plays per game that the only reason he wasn't sacked or got yardage was because he was able to escape/out run pressure. It wasn't because the Oline blocked better. So my worry is with that Oline and a way less mobile and elusive MBT, even though he will read defenses faster, he's probably going to get hit a lot if he can't move like Ford.

Again, I hope I am wrong.

[Mr.Prez]

If you’re not on HFOil Victor Cui just put out a cryptic Tweet:

Important day for football tomorrow. #football #sports #entrepreneurs #YEG

https://x.com/victorcui/status/17733...1G-_0OTyqBFBGw

[bone]

If you’re not on HFOil Victor Cui just put out a cryptic Tweet:

Important day for football tomorrow. #football #sports #entrepreneurs #YEG

https://x.com/victorcui/status/17733...1G-_0OTyqBFBGw

Such a weird tweet to come from a guy who should no longer be connected to the team at all.

What a weird twist it would be that he ends up buying the team from the board that fired him. Talk about a hostile takeover.

[Looner]

I know culture is important but at the same time, culture only goes so far if you don't have enough talent. There was rumors the culture under Brock wasn't very good but their team also sucked talent wise. How much does the "culture" improve if your team is better on the field? I don't have the answer but IMO, winning helps some with your culture. If you are a super competitive guy, and you want to win, but you know your team is lousy and you expect to lose every game, it would be pretty hard to be super positive all the time. To be honest, I am the type that if you are a losing team over and over again and you have a bunch of guys all cheery and goofing around, I start to question your commitment to winning and wonder about if you have a locker room culture that is just happy to be there or really wants to win. Players don't have to be complete A-holes but you shouldn't be happy to get your ass kicked game after game.

Talent wise during the Brock years, I felt their Oline was lousy, special teams were brutal and the defense wasn't great. I don't think a better culture fixes the Oline getting burnt over and over and the QB getting drilled.

I am a HUGE supporter for culture being #1. Culture isn't always defined as guys being happy about losing, it can show up in your attitude towards your teammates (are you finger-pointing), your attitude towards the support staff and coaches (are you putting the effort in and showing appreciation) amongst other things. A couple of examples of culture and the importance of it can be seen in the NHL. A few years back the Canadiens went to the Stanley Cup final on the back of Shea Weber (who carries his bag into the rink) and Carey Price. When both of those guys exited stage left, the team fell to the bottom of the standings as they took a major hit to their on-ice product that their locker-room culture couldn't overcome. If Weber were to have been able to stay around for another 3-5 years, the young guys would have taken on his ways and they wouldn't have seen as much of a dip as they did.

Example #2 is the 2023/24 Bruins, who lost their top 2 centers in the off-season and are still sitting at the top of the standings as their culture is carrying them through as Chara passed on his work ethic to Bergeron who passed it onto Pasta and Marchand. Those guys will run through a wall for each other and it shows in the standings. Take a look at the recent comments from Kane and how he reacted when McDavid was getting manhandled by the Leafs and you'll see that there is an issue there. To many of those guys and the team fails.

Culture is such a tough thing to nail down and to quantify but as a coach myself I can attest to the importance of it.

[Looner]

I agree, I thought the defense would be better under Jones and it's been lousy. But in saying that, and this is going to come off snarky towards Jones, but I think part of it is, he's been IMO trying to be the "I am the smartest guy in the room" guy again. We had the Duron Carter experiment. He was out of football for a bit, he gets brought back and he tried to convert him to a DB. I don't know what they paid him but probably way too much and they would have been better off using his money to pay an actual DB, maybe 2. They also tried to convert another WR in Leonard (I think that was the name). Jones like big, athletic DB's Great. Those 2 were receivers probably all in highschool, in college and their pro careers for a reason. So trying to change them up here was stupid in my opinion and I think cost them games plus cost them developing guys who maybe last year would have been farther along and maybe this year as well. I think he's rolling the dice again this year with the Dline. He subtracted a lot of sacks, pressures and tackles with getting rid/trading Ceresna and Lennard with no clear replacement. Maybe it works out but whoever takes their spots, that's a hell of a lot of production they need replaced and I think that's asking a lot.

I am not sure if Corny ever had the ability to be a starter but like I said, I think not investing on the Oline but instead spent big on receivers was a big mistake. Usually young QB's struggle with reading defenses quickly, lots of American QB's coming up struggle with the extra guy, lots need work on their footwork. IMO the best way to give a young QB the best chance to improve in those areas is giving him extra TIME. When they don't get time because there is pressure, they get panicking and make mistakes. I am not sure if it would have made a difference, but I do wonder if the Elks had a better Oline that could establish a run game and give Corny more time, could he have been better? For his first year and last year, there was usually a guy in his face most snaps pretty quickly.

Even this year, I am concerned about the Oline even with MBT. I think MBT is a way better QB than Corny and better than Ford. I think he is calmer, reads defenses better and is more accurate but when the Elks made the change to Ford last year and the offense had a tiny bit of success, IMO a lot of it was due to Ford just being so athletic and so fast. He was able to get a lot of yards with his legs, so the linebackers gave him extra space and there was many plays per game that the only reason he wasn't sacked or got yardage was because he was able to escape/out run pressure. It wasn't because the Oline blocked better. So my worry is with that Oline and a way less mobile and elusive MBT, even though he will read defenses faster, he's probably going to get hit a lot if he can't move like Ford.

Again, I hope I am wrong.

One thing that gives me hope in regards to the Oline is that MBT is going to be faster to get through his reads than both Ford and Corny, which should help him get the ball away quicker.

[Sectionq]

I am a HUGE supporter for culture being #1. Culture isn't always defined as guys being happy about losing, it can show up in your attitude towards your teammates (are you finger-pointing), your attitude towards the support staff and coaches (are you putting the effort in and showing appreciation) amongst other things. A couple of examples of culture and the importance of it can be seen in the NHL. A few years back the Canadiens went to the Stanley Cup final on the back of Shea Weber (who carries his bag into the rink) and Carey Price. When both of those guys exited stage left, the team fell to the bottom of the standings as they took a major hit to their on-ice product that their locker-room culture couldn't overcome. If Weber were to have been able to stay around for another 3-5 years, the young guys would have taken on his ways and they wouldn't have seen as much of a dip as they did.

Example #2 is the 2023/24 Bruins, who lost their top 2 centers in the off-season and are still sitting at the top of the standings as their culture is carrying them through as Chara passed on his work ethic to Bergeron who passed it onto Pasta and Marchand. Those guys will run through a wall for each other and it shows in the standings. Take a look at the recent comments from Kane and how he reacted when McDavid was getting manhandled by the Leafs and you'll see that there is an issue there. To many of those guys and the team fails.

Culture is such a tough thing to nail down and to quantify but as a coach myself I can attest to the importance of it.

If the Elks had a better "culture" under Brock, do you think their roster was good enough to contend?

[Sectionq]

One thing that gives me hope in regards to the Oline is that MBT is going to be faster to get through his reads than both Ford and Corny, which should help him get the ball away quicker.

You could be right but there were a lot of times where Corny and Ford barely had time to grip the ball before there was a guy in their faces.

[Looner]

If the Elks had a better "culture" under Brock, do you think their roster was good enough to contend?

culture is not all you need but it is very important and tough to win without.

[Looner]

You could be right but there were a lot of times where Corny and Ford barely had time to grip the ball before there was a guy in their faces.

For sure, I'm HOPING that continuity plays a factor this year as well but I guess we'll have to wait and see on that front.

[Mr.Prez]

Such a weird tweet to come from a guy who should no longer be connected to the team at all.

What a weird twist it would be that he ends up buying the team from the board that fired him. Talk about a hostile takeover.

Garrick Jones btw responded to the tweet with a handclap

[BeaverSports]

I know culture is important but at the same time, culture only goes so far if you don't have enough talent. There was rumors the culture under Brock wasn't very good but their team also sucked talent wise.

I don’t know, I really thought the talent was good the year they lost Reilly and brought in Harris, Ellingson, Dean, and others. Better game management in the playoffs might have got them to the Grey Cup then.

Even the Elizondo year, people were optimistic going in. You wonder if they kept guys like Lemon around if that. May have helped. The Covid issues, coupled with Brock’s people management were factors in the collapse.

Talent wise during the Brock years, I felt their Oline was lousy, special teams were brutal and the defense wasn't great. I don't think a better culture fixes the Oline getting burnt over and over and the QB getting drilled.

The O-line was decent with Beard, O’Donnell and Ruby in the middle and Saxelid. Unfortunately, SirV couldn’t stay healthy. Even Kelly was serviceable.

They had a secondary that got its fair share of picks and Boateng and Betts were good bookends to Ceresna on the lines. LB corps was good the one year with Dean, but would agree that unit could have been stronger.

I don’t think Brock was a bad talent evaluator by any means, he just wasn’t a good people manager. But I’m also not sure the Hervey loyalists ever gave him a fighting chance to build that without infighting.

[The Messiah]

Garrick Jones btw responded to the tweet with a handclap

Uh-oh....lol

[eskfan152]

If you’re not on HFOil Victor Cui just put out a cryptic Tweet:

Important day for football tomorrow. #football #sports #entrepreneurs #YEG

https://x.com/victorcui/status/17733...1G-_0OTyqBFBGw

Nothing else on this I guess. I’m really curious on this in a couple of areas. #1 what is Cui’s interest in this. If I get fired from a job, I don’t think I’d have 2 craps about what happened to that business afterwards. So it’s A, he genuinely loves and feels like he knows the solution for success, or B he’s going to put some or all of the investment in to purchase (which would involve a whole part A as well).

#2. What’s with the hinting that it’s getting done on Good Friday (and nothing has happened that we know of). Seems like a strange time to garner attention.